zeban

Thanks Daizie! A lady would never kiss and tell

I'm afraid that's for me to know felt-tip!

Thanks all, I didn't even think I'd get a response! So I decided on a bar/cafe/restaurant/deli in the city called The Folly. It's fun and quirky so less pressure and more laughing! I definitely recommend it, especially for the amazing desert inspired cocktails- strawberry cheesecake was my favourite :)

sorry I meant for the southbank. I don't really want to do cliche touristy things. looking more for a nice setting for a cosy lunch/drink/coffee

That's what I originally thought but I'm thinking it's a bit cold for that :'(

Any suggestions please?!

Puzzled, you've disappeared!

Fair enough and I apologise that I clearly misunderstood.

Do you not think it's a horrible thing to say the things she has? because I think it's extremely horrible to hear such prejudice and ignorance in the area I live. And although not directed at me as an individual it is still deeply personal and offensive to me and other working class families of East Dulwich, especially parents. So are her feelings still more important than the peoples feelings who are the subject of her prejudice?

It doesn't matter, if you're going to display your snobbery and prejudice then it's open for debate. And that's exactly what she's doing yet you're defending her. I wasn't attacking her. I genuinely don't think from reading her above posts that she really understands what she is talking about, which she does say herself so it isn't patronising in the least bit, and she can't if she's under the impression that working class parents don't care about their childrens education, and middle class parents do and therefore should get the priority for the good schools. This IS misinformation, wherever she got it from, and as a newcomer to East Dulwich I would hope that people already from the area would like to help her understand that these kinds of attitudes and prejudices are wrong and untrue.

They are Dorothy. But don't be surprised, this has been going on for a long long time.

kindaha Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > civilservant - don't worry hijack away!. we have > had to move from clapham where there is an > excellent - school a 'beacon of excellence' so in > theory at least better than any of the ones here > because we 'the middle classes' can't afford to > live in its catchment. it is slap bang in the > middle of a council estate so all the kids from > there get priority. still these discussions can > go on for ever - i think it is sad when we reduce > ourselves and others to a class. perhaps this > could be said to be the privilege of the middle > classes (not to have to think of what class they > belong to) but if so it is a privilege I will hang > onto. we are all humans and we all want the best > for our children. > > oilworker I didn't mean to say I don't know what > class I belong to - what I meant is that I don't > care to classify myself. I am middle Class if you > insist as you surely must be by now. That however > doesn't define either you or I. Look I'm sorry but if you don't care to classify yourself then why mention it as many times as you have. I think you are confused in thinking that we all must be middle class by now which isn't true. I think it is a shame that you are using your privileges of wealth to monopolise the good state schools by moving into those catchment areas. This has however been going on for a while now though so it's no surprise to hear another person doing it but to then show what seems to me obvious outrage that those living in the local housing estates should have the audicity to get priority to these schools!!! Don't you think all good involved parents whatever class they're in want to send their children to the best schools? And Civil Servant your remark that 'high-density social housing, usually inhabited by the under-involved working classes' is not only pure snobbery but also complete crap. Often it seems on the surface that middle class parents are involved more so than working class parents but that's because they're the ones with the economic clout, extra time, but more importantly the confidence to get overly involved- taking it as a given that they'll be listened to. I don't want to sound harsh kindaha but please open your mind and educate yourself. Class is a complex issue in this country and it's not a case of you work hard, do all the right things, and you become middle class/ move up the social ladder. There is nothing wrong with being working class. I am working class and proud. My mother is working class and an amazing mother who fought hard to get me into good schools. I went to a very good university and got a very good degree and I was brought up in social housing with very little money. I'm not in a minority, and my mother is not in a minority. She's far more intelligent than many many people I have met. If being middle class buys me priviliges that aren't supposed to be privileges in our society like a good education then I'll stick to being working class :) I'm not meaning to have a go but I do worry about what your husband is feeding you. I'd like to think, and hope and pray!, that East Dulwich is worlds apart from Clapham. Maybe I'm the one in denial...

.

Any recommendations Applespider?

eh?

Gods gift to women ;-)

Puzzled you are strange. You put a post up giving very limited information, and an unclear point of view on your behalf. Then you wait two pages in which given the limited information you gave a number of people wondered whether this is ok as they assumed this could have been a mistake etc on the part of the person. ONLY THEN do you write that the thieves are well known to the community, and part of a gang who deliberately shoplift- which if had been known at the start would obviously have led the thread in a different direction. I know it's no fun being robbed. I had my house broken into and robbed, I lost everything and felt completely violated and scared which took a long time to get over. But am I paranoid that everyone is out to get me now? no. Have I thought about seeking revenge? of course, especially as it turned out he was my ex next door neighbour who did it, and I'm sure is still living in the same place. But I never actually would, what's the point? What goes around comes around. From the above post I am thinking you are the shopkeeper who puts the pictures up and just wanted to see the reaction of the locals. Then when you don't like a certain reaction you resort to name calling and belittling. What you are doing is vigilantism in my eyes and in other peoples eyes whether you agree or not. Do I understand it? yes. Do I condone it? no. I think as decent people it's not right to lower yourself to their level- and as awful a cliche it is, two wrongs don't make a right. I also like to look up to my local shopkeepers as good moral citizens who are role models to the community so I feel they have a duty to keep personal vendettas away from their businesses. But hey it's your shop, your life, your choice so do what you want.. just don't complain if some people don't agree with you.

Given that it's a multi-tasker I would say yes definitely :)). Get the one that suits you though, there's a few variations on the market ;-)

I don't get it then at all. I'm guessing they must have already been prosecuted before if they operate in that way and would already be banned from the shop/other shops. And if all the shopkeepers know them then a picture up now seems even more pointless. Unless they're still trying to steal from the same shops they've been caught in already which seems pretty stupid.

Now there's a surprise!

And pray tell me what does mentally disabled mean? In my opinion it seems to suggest an inability to function in society due to being short of mental possibilities. I was and always have been talking about mental illness. There's a massive difference between people who are mentally disabled eg. people with Downs Syndrome, and people who are mentally ill eg. people with depression, eating disorders etc. Most mentally ill people are extremely intelligent, they wouldn't steal because they can't differentiate between right or wrong- they're more aware of the majority of people the differences between right or wrong. Certain behaviours are merely a symptom of the distress they are feeling inside. Kleptomania is an example of this, OCD, self harming, etc. That's what makes it even harder for the people who do suffer. How can you tell if someone suffers from a mental illness? You can't. It's invisible. And 1 in 4 people will suffer from a mental illness in their life. It's nothing to be ashamed of. In fact those that I've met have been some of the most interesting and intelligent people I've ever met. So IF this was the case with that person I would think it's a shame that publicly embarassing that person is seen as necessary. The shop could be more discreet.

'The likelihood of this being a middle-class whoopsie or mentally disabled is invisibly small.' You don't know that. That's your assumption. And that's my point.

Huguenot I was wondering where you had gone! All of your points above are obvious, I know who my local shopkeepers are thank you and I do defend them. I've never argued that they don't have a right to protect their shops but I argued that publicly putting pictures up of 'thieves' in my opinion is wrong. Like I said ages ago it's absolutetly right that the staff are aware of the person and have a picture up in their staffroom so that if they re offend they can be officially banned or arrested. You don't need a security guard to do this. Huguenot, I don't always hold English society in high esteem myself and I'm very well travelled so I can also see the pitfalls in this country BUT I still prefer it to societies that still have the death penalty. But I guess there you have low crime rates and low taxes so I think Singapore suits people like you very well. Personally I found it the most dull and cultureless country in Asia. Give me Japan anyday.

Louisiana, I absolutely completely agree with you. What about people with kleptomania? People who make mistakes? People with mental health issues? Why do you think shops employ security guards Huguenot? They see it as their duty and their duty alone to deal with theft in their stores. Just because this is a small business it doesn't mean that they can decide to use other ways to deter shoplifters ie.shaming the person publicly to potentially deter them from doing it again. Whether this 'works' or not this isn't the way you do things and definitely is not the correct legal procedure. Perhaps the police thought it was a good idea to do it because they would prefer not to deal with it themselves-less work for them, that certainly wouldn't surprise me. The police are not the people you ask about the law funnily enough, look at all of the unlawful things police officers have done over the years. It's a solicitor you need to ask and I've no doubt they would have said that that isn't the lawful procedure for deterring or catching a theif.