miga Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > rahrahrah Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Evidence is that > > grammar schools are bad for social mobility and > > bring overall attainment down. > > A few things. Firstly - that's not evidence, > that's an assertion. Secondly, if you look at the > painstakingly non-partisan Full Fact summary you > linked to, they're careful to refer to the > "current" and "existing" grammar system. (What > happens when a lot more grammar places free up? > What shape will the new grammars take?) Thirdly - > the conclusion they draw is very qualified, it's > really not that black and white - it includes > words like "slightly" and "marginally" in front of > "worse" or "better". (I mean, why are the > comprehensives in Kent worse than in other areas?) > Finally - social mobility is a generally good > idea, but it's only one aspect of what education > is about. It's an assertion based on evidence and analysis (not my own: http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2013/01/28/grammar-school-myths/). Its true that full fact talk about the current system, that's what they've based their anaylsis on (what else could it be based upon). As you say, they are incredibly careful to be objective and stick to the facts. By the same token, they are of course cautious in their conclusions, but never the less are clear that the assertion that grammars are good for social mobility is not evidence based. That said, all the analysis of the long term pilot of grammar schools in England (not just Kent btw), come to the same conclusions - that attainment goes down and that social mobility is harmed. If it might only be a marginally worse system, is that a good reason to re-introduce it? The most important thing here though, is that the burden of proof when making a huge change to the existing system, sits with those proposing the change. Why would you totally uproot the education system, with no evidence that it will (as has been suggested) improve social mobility - indeed with all existing evidence seemingly showing the opposite. You suggest that we can't be sure until we role out grammars across the whole country - but on what... a hunch? Nostalgia?