malumbu

Many/most drivers are addicted. Mass car ownership was a game changer from the 1960s when cars became more affordable. They provide you convenience and comfort. But the world is changing, we are screwing up the planet, there is only a finite space for roads (unless we pave over paradise), we are looking to share that space better with pedestrians and non-motorised transport. So things cannot continue the way they were. But many/most will find it difficult to give up this privilege. Studies have shown that incentives and gentle nudges fail to deliver (I've posted references before). So you need some big sticks. There may be better ones than LTNs but tis up to the man in charge (the one that says a lot but not great on providing substance). I liked all the draconian suggestions, and would impose them if I was King for the day, but I am not, and I am aware of the reality. I was involved in workshops a few years ago on improving air quality, and we'd always start up with discouraging people throwing in "if only we did this, that or the other.

Not heard anyone mention the obvious of reducing drafts, thicker curtains and the like. Ideally we'd better insulate our homes but successive governments haven't got their heads round that yet, and there was a half assed attempt of a grant scheme last year. What we want is a high profile campaign on insulating houses, perhaps with a few stunts like Fathers for Justice or XR. Shame somebody hasn't started one yet.

P3girl Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Just to clarify the MAIN FOCUS of this is project, as was said earlier, is......... ""It will also highlight the inequitable distribution of pollution on young and vulnerable residents as a result of LTN's. Plus the effects > on local businesses and protected minorities."" > Need I say more? Oh, such a shame, I thought that you were looking at a wide range of measures to improve air quality. As such is appears as a Trojan horse for anti LTN. Perhaps think again. As others have pointed out you need hard measures to get some people out of their cars for journeys that could be made by more sustainable/environmentally friendly and healthy means. Listening out on conversations about the fuel crisis has confirmed that in my mind - "oh we had to walk to work in the last few days" "to, hooray, we have fuel and we can now drive again". Not sure why the PM hasn't talked about workplace parking levies, why should workplaces subsidise those driving when those using other means don't get financial support.

Good luck, I've posted elsewhere other groups who are heavily involved in air quality (as I have been for a number of years). I'll post the link later. I hope that you will be looking at ways of discouraging motorised road traffic, or more efficient use of it (I like high occupancy lanes where you need two or more people in a car, this is common in the USA but generally we don't have a second lane). Another really useful piece of advice is on driving style, 95% of drivers do not know how to drive down traffic calmed roads - I could lecture for Britain on this - back off before you hit the speed bump, then slight acceleration over this. When open I could drive down Court Lane without stopping once, yet EVERY driver I have ever watched over the decades will accelerate towards the speed bump, brake, accelerate, brake - increasing fuel use, brake and tyre wear (and particulates) and increase the stress on the engine increasing NOx. All aspects of urban driving need better anticipation which in turn would lead to smoother journeys. Anyone who doesn't agree should go and have an eco driving lesson. In fact all drivers should have such lessons. Smoother driving means less stress on both driver, passengers and other road users. Finally it would be great if you could encourage greater respect between road users, and better sharing of the road. Principally aimed at car drivers, but some of this would be aimed at scooter and bike riders. On your suggestions on buses hope you have contacted TfL, there may also be a community group (Dulwich Society or equivalent in SE22?). I was involved in a community group a few years ago not so far away, and we did a lot to lobby on transport and amenities. The value of this is that you are also not a single issue group which would therefore have more influence.

The genuine question was whether there is equal reporting. You could say the same about whether white lives matter more than black Or young more than old. You could see it as a brave question, or crass timing. However you dress it up some will take offence. You are welcome to look at my views on this question - I expect the original poster can defend him or her self. There are some enormous questions about society, trust in the police and dare I say political opportunism.

You posted an earlier link to what other countries think of us from a guardian article. I thought I was being quite gentle, and in the sake of a discussion always good putting forward counter arguments, which I thought that was what the Lounge was for (unlike some threads on other sections). I don't think you will find any post I have ever made supporting Brexit, and I am even prepared to tell Cat that he/she is wrong from time to time. But I do listen to some with opposing political views (I also lost friends following the referendum and it has soured relations with some family members.....) I quite like Barry Gardner MPs views, very pragmatic whilst not believing we should have voted to leave recognising that we did have to. Perhaps if we had all behaved like this we may be in a better position (I thought that it just couldn't happen). Oh no, not with May, Corbyn and Johnson - Dave should have stayed and sorted out the mess. https://m.facebook.com/BBCQuestionTime/videos/376562203165003/?locale2=en_GB

I think Ken Loach's film captures the 'pleasure' of being a private on line delivery driver. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorry_We_Missed_You And Amazon, worse still Amazon Prime, the on line company of last resort!

As said before Blair was seen to be a toxic brand after his handling of the 2000 fuel protests and neither he or another minister would address the public on future supply shortages leaving it to the industry and consumer experts. Not sure why the Tory party allow the PM to speak to the nation on this, particularly seeing as he got the message wrong this morning, apart from the fact that most people who voted for him don't care what he says, his popularity still remains the same. I'd like a Tory voter to argue otherwise - I expect it is more big picture, ie we know he is a clown, untrustworthy etc but overall we prefer his party to the others. And he got Brexit done. Sort of. Well not really but you know what I mean.

Perhaps a little alarmist, and whilst most of us may agree with the Guardian it doesn't represent the views of the majority in the UK. Always good to look at the Daily Express - hooray the PM has saved the country, hooray hooray. And for many it was that they didn't like foreigners coming over here irrespective of the benefits, and that we could similarly be foreigners working in their country. Yes this is little England stereotyping but still represents how many feel in this country - or at least how easily many were persuaded. As a foreigner what do you reckon of the overseas reporting on the fuel crisis Cat?

Massive shortage in hospitality, go round the local cafes and restaurants.

To continue my discussion on the other thread - PM not being reassuring on the Johnny Marr show this morning: Asked about a prediction by the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, that shortages of petrol and other goods could last months, to Christmas or beyond, Johnson initially refused to answer. Pressed by Marr, he said: ?Rishi is invariably right. But it depends how you interpret what he said.? Johnson said the issue was a long-term one, caused largely by the road haulage industry not investing in better pay and conditions and instead relying on the cheaper labour of drivers from Europe, now gone due to Brexit. For his sake, and Britain?s, now is the time for Boris Johnson to ride off into the sunset Max Hastings He did, however, contradict himself in trying to explain what was causing the specific shortages of petrol, saying at first: ?The issue at the forecourts is fundamentally one of supply.? When asked why EU countries had not experienced similar issues, he said it was ?a particular problem to do with demand?.

sally buying Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Or with many petrol garages being shut down and having flats built on the site there are not enough garages to fulfill the area need. There are plenty of garages, just not enough storage to cope with a short term surge in demand/ short term supply issues. The large reduction in filling stations is simply economic, you really need to be part of a supermarket or have mini mart attached, otherwise you cannot compete in a cut throat market, particularly when your land is worth far more for housing or even as a car wash. I could say the same about timber merchants, having seen so many go in recent years. On wider matters don't think that the PM was very reassuring today. I'll post more on the lounge

I am trying to be the voice of reason on this thread, for example the survey quoted by Zerkalo is hardly a surprise. When asked there will be a loosely equivalent hard core on both sides that say badly, or well (or at the moment they are unsure or neutral on this). So should I have voted to leave, but think it is not going too well at the moment, do you think that I have changed my mind about leaving? For most absolutely no. But after watching the PM briefly on the Johnny Marr show this morning. For heavens sake. We had five years to prepare for this, and encourage people to train to become HGV drivers, care workers, hospitality industry etc. And you blame the RHA? For HGV drivers there will no doubt be a premium that encourages more to go into the trade. I doubt if for hospitality and care, which needed freedom of movement (not that horrible term uncontrolled immigration as the PM has now called it) to keep the NHS, care homes, and coffee shops going. In time of course I expect that we will get 'controlled immigration' from a number of Asian countries, particularly those with young populations

You can report it if it is visibly smoky (few are nowadays) https://www.gov.uk/report-smoky-vehicle Please write to your MP asking them to write to the Secretary of State for the Environment asking them why there are not more controls stopping this. You can also write to the Mayor of London. Also you may wish to join environmental groups such as Client Earth or Clean Air in London who campaign for better air quality. https://cleanair.london/ https://www.clientearth.org/ Good luck

With the ULEZ fast approaching I understand that quite a few much older petrol cars (ie pre 05/06) will be compliant. These do not have limits on their particulate matter. The good news on petrol is that following the Los Angeles smogs of the 70s new technology was introduced that reduced pollution - fuel injection and three way catalysts. Yet a 20 year old petrol vehicle may be rater worn, and therefore burning more engine oil, but falling short of the black or blue smoke that will fail it's MOT. On the post about refrigerated vehicles idling and polluting, there are technologies that can reduce this but I fear hasn't been widespread adoption. My worse example is older ice cream vans, with black smoke pouring out, whilst the engine was running and powering the generator. They seem to be exempt from everything!

Petrol Retailers Association reports better Nationwide availability but not London. I'd always go to the BBC for my news (heard it on Radio 4) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/58772169 I'd only queue if I was desperate but fortunately all my journeys at the moment can be done by public transport, bike or foot. Weather will be improving I'm pleased to say! I've put down thoughts on government messaging on the Lounge - including what I feel is poor levels of information. This should have burned itself out by now - why not??

An interesting point is that with high gas prices Centrica, who produce about half of our gas in the North Sea (I understand that they produce from the North Sea and Morecambe Bay) our two major domestic reserves, will be making a mint. Great for their share holders, pension funds who invest etc but not for the rest of us. Correct me if I am wrong! And maybe this would have been better under state ownership.... Don't tell Syd.

Hmm, thought it would have all blown over by now. A blip should last a few days not a week plus. It would be helpful if the government would share the key stats, they have them all collated for COBR which has to be sitting. They did this for data and projections at key times during the Covid pandemic. If we had an equivalent to Jonathan VT with graphs, showing what would happen if we didn't all rush off and buy fuel, and how quickly the situation would alleviate itself that may have quelled anxiety. The news today that it may be getting worse in London, not better hasn't helped. I expect the heavy traffic on South Circ to Forest Hill was due to Tecos having fuel. A silly place to have a filling station at the best of times The last Labour government appeared to be better at doing this (sharing data), and sharing planning arrangements too. A new National Risk Assessment was published in 2020, there not being a unrestricted one since 2008 when it was published annually https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/952959/6.6920_CO_CCS_s_National_Risk_Register_2020_11-1-21-FINAL.pdf Looking back on 2008: 2.68 The Government?s National Emergency Plan for Fuel is designed to prioritise fuel resources in the event of major disruption to supply. It includes the possibility of rationing supply to retail customers, and prioritising emergency services and essential service providers. If there is sufficient diesel to supply emergency services and essential service providers then the surplus will be prioritised to truck stops and HGV motorway filling stations to help keep supply chains operational. Can't find the equivalent in the 2020 risk assessment... maybe the PM thought that this risk had gone away (to be fair the 2020 assessment is far broader, and more user friendly language) I'm seeing this from a fairly privileged position (in terms of knowledge not wealth/education!).

Moving into Lounge territory. Firstly is there a market for products not wrapped in flexible plastic. Hmm, not sure, if really pees me off when you buy cakes, biscuits and the like that are then subdivided into lunch box sized amounts wrapped in plastic. Would Mr Kippling for example sell cakes that are not wrapped like this, should we pay more for excess packaging? Should government intervene. Being fortunate enough to get to France in the summer many of their fruit and veg in the supermarkets are sold loose, and/or in none-plastic packaging. I doubt if they consulted about this. In the same way that they banned plastic bags years ago. More please (not sure if this is all parts of France)

I've seen some of these poorly paid staff manage the queues. And if we remember many shops would open early for key workers during Lockdown 1. That said probably easier to manage early opening of supermarkets in a time of a national pandemic, as compared to angry people who can't get fuel for the school run. Frightens me just thinking about it. Simplest way is having a blanket limit on fuel purchases - that is a real suggestion - but would need police and security to be there as things would turn nasty. Those that really need a full fuel tank simply queue again.

Money has fallen into the sofa, I use that excuse all the time

And most who voted for it are not bothered. Going off slightly on tangent seeing the Beeb in Dudley talking with shoppers about Starmer, following his speech at conference, and hearing some say "we love scum" (sorry "we love Boris") without a care about what he stands for and who he really represents. Thanks go to Angela Raynor for coining this new name (Yes, it is not big, or clever, but pleased me).

Blair abandoned the fuel duty escalator in 1999, and then suspended rises in fuel duty, which has been the story ever since. The point about 'surprise' that there had been no protests under Tory governments, was intended to be ironic as groups such as the Tax Payers Alliance, Fair Fuel UK etc are not great fans of Labour governments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_Price_Escalator Worth a look at Fair Fuel UK - it reminds me of some of the discussions elsewhere on the Forum, and I hope that I can post this sort of thing on the Lounge. "We want clean air but not at the expense of limiting our rights to drive" https://www.fairfueluk.com/ Back to fuel availability, I hear some saying they have to fill up for the school run and the like. And I think, really? How far do you have to travel? Are there not other options, or even getting a lift with another parent?? And those who urgently need fuel for example for care duties, it is not beyond the wit of filling stations to allow some to jump the queue. There was many businesses who were happy to give freebies, or reduce prices of front line workers during lockdown. OK so definitely not infalable, I'm sure I could knock up some social services IDs, but an idea. I'm sure that I am being naive.... Probably just you and I interested DKH!

Some will be removed eg using magnets for steel, and I expect also by density. Hopefully not too much goes to land fill or incineration. I expect non-recyclable waste going in with the recyclable is more of an issue, but could be wrong!

You close the streets to cars, as they have done on Rye Lane, and Central Oxford did about 30 years ago.