malumbu

Some refresher training and a government campaign aimed at all road users, to share the highway would be excellent. As for enforcement we decided as a nation to reduce the priority and resourcing decades ago, I expect that this was under Thatch because drivers should show personal responsibility, and Blair onwards do not wish to upset motorists (and sadly today Starmer is indicating the same).

You can get behaviour change without a big stick, most dog owners pick up poo, few smokers smoke in front of children or in a house with none smokers. More can always be done, cool people don't litter and drive, cycle and walk considerably. Even cooler blokes leave the seat down

Doubt it. Election is over a year ago and ULEZ will be embedded by then. Clutching at straws.

That's quite sad to assume all other road users are idiots. I see it as we all share the road and therefore we all cooperate. A more positive message from government would help rather than the manufactured road wars that many here seem to join in with. Most road users are decent, virtually all could do with training. I'm discussing that in another thread.

As I started the thread don't you think that I had a view on the subject. Rather than sniping perhaps share your views Bic.

Purpose of this thread is to discuss whether there should be training, and subsequent training, for road users. Pretty clear. If you don't have anything to say then don't. Cheers Rich and FHC for sharing your thoughts. One of my issues is this manufactured war between road users, perhaps the major parties have a vested interest in maintaining this. It would be better to campaign to encourage better sharing of roads, and the right behaviours, road positioning, communicating, observing. Equally as applicable to pedestrians. I don't buy this personal responsibility stuff, as many are simply ignorant (not aware). I genuinely did learn from public information campaigns of the past even though easy to lampoon. Views Rocks?

As there are so many whingy threads on this forum I thought I'd start one. On the road the other day I saw three road users who didn't signal properly. Delivery motorcyclist who thought they'd check their phone mounted on the bars before doing a fast left turn followed by a driver who indicated as they turned - pretty common experience. Then a hire bike on the next junction that turned left without any sign. All I would have needed is a pedestrian walking out on their phone to complete the quartet. Lack of signals meant traffic from the minor road was held back. So, there is no refresher training for motorists and bikers. Once they pass their test the only likely future training is a speed awareness course. Few go for advanced training and sadly IAM is considered fuddy duddy by many. There is a commitment to free cycle training for all, but not enough money, instructors or unfortunately demand to role this out across the country. And not sure how much training there is for pedestrians, do they still do stuff at school? Me? I've done advanced motorcycle training, eco driving and cycle training. It's all about sharing the road and none of this manufactured road wars that has become an urban myth. And hats off to the cyclist in central London who just clipped me as I dashed out between cars who smiled when I apologized rather than the barrage of abuse a younger me would have given. So let's make this an ULEZ/LTN/CPZ thread, and avoid this road wars nonsense. I know it may be difficult. (Inspired by a rather entitled motorist yesterday who was ranting about having to give way at junctions to pedestrians)

Wow, as if there aren't any other threads where you can vent your anger at Southwark/TfL/Labour travel policies and interventions. Most of inner London has CPZs. The sun still rises in the morning and sets in the evening. I'll not be objecting and hope some in this forum will be looking at both arguments.

???? Why would anyone be jealous of someone owning a car? It's not the 1950s

Don't worry. Rocks bark is much worse than his/her bite. I always check closely when cycling or driving on the pavement to check that Rocks is not around.

Advisory vs mandatory 20 mph would appear to be an urban myth, for example on GB news. A nice article on 20 mph on a random website https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/are-20mph-speed-limits enforceable#gref This includes comments on a DfT metastudy that I saw a few years ago which showed disappointingly 20mph aren't having a massive impact on average speeds in urban area. Some numbers from GLA, around a quarter of a million prosecutions over five months in 2022 for speeding of which over a 100,000 were 20mph zones, so quite a few of us are being prosecuted. Not clear how many were fixed penalties, points or speed awareness courses. I'm surprised how many people I know who have done the latter. It would have helped if DfT had actually clarified whether 20mph was enforceable (which looks a very big yes).

They race to it and then slow down, pretty pointless wouldn't you say, it would be nice if you agreed with one of my points one of these days.

Returning to my comment on bugs/butterflies a lady called Penny Metal surveys a small park in Peckham where she has found over 500 species. This featured on Springwatch (not Countryfile as I wrongly reported) https://peckhampeculiar.tumblr.com/post/167080530692/bug-life www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09kd0km Back to our garden as well as a family of starlings (which we never had before) we have now ten or so chirpy sparrows competing with the tits and goldfinches for the feeders (dunnocks too). Never had sparrows around here, they were plentiful when I moved to London 30 years ago. Bird food is now being consumed at twice the rate £££££ (10% off today at Garden Wildlife Direct) https://www.gardenwildlifedirect.co.uk/

A bit dismissive Penguin, my thoughts are based on the few 'quick' roads we have in the area, eg Brenchley Gardens, where almost all traffic exceeds 20mph, and some hits 50 plus. The odd person doing 20ish will eventually get a boy/girl racer hammering past them, sometimes on the wrong side of the bollards, before braking for the speed camera (if they are going East). If most roads round here are so congested that people crawl round well under 20, then you could argue there is no need for speed cameras. The solution in the past would be speed traps but you rarely see these around London and no longer a police priority. There was a community group that did speed watch but not sure if that exists. They don't seem to have caught anyone in Ambridge recently (not to self, suggest to the BBC new plots with road charging, vehicle restrictions and CPZs - the EV charging station has certainly caught the village's attention 😀

Road charging needs to be national, and as Penguin said, essentially this would replace Vehicle Excise Duty. It's a shame we don't have greater leadership in out current government. From friends in various departments, including transport, it all seems to be don't rock the boat, and lets just see off the next 17 months till a new lot get in. Obviously the PM is still making announcements in other areas, generally without substance. Whether you think it is a money making scheme or not, ULEZ gets many of the most polluting vehicles off the street.

Remind me of the person who studies bugs in the area, they were featured on Countryfile a couple of years ago and were seen in small parks in the Peckham area finding microfauna. May be relevant to the butterfly count.

A broad question that covers community groups. Link Age Southwark is one

Probably the same person that crashed into the phone box and cycle parking outside Lidl in Sydenham

Gearing of vehicles is up to how manufacturers engineer vehicles, the type of journeys, power and top speed. You could argue that most manufacturers engineer cars to go 30 mph above the national speed limit which could be seen as daft. I expect a small city car is very happy at 20 mph, similarly a medium sized diesel due to low end torque. So your tuppance worth may not be relevant. This experienced driver doesn't have a problem including test riding electric Nissan Leafs on 20 mph (wonderful as it just made you smile)

And loads of Tories too, two car families (only poor people use the bus, happy to drive to zone 3 eg Honor Oak Park to save money on their commute, about 50/50 on Brexit, white flight although dying off and far more cosmopolitan than say 20;years ago but very few 20 mph roads, booo, and not great on cycling infrastructure. Not that I live in Bromley

What's wrong with on line bookings? We do this for so many activities. Perhaps give it some time rather than come over all angry oh Tunbridge Wells

Bollox, 20mph if adhered to leads to smoother driving and reduced congestion. Half the problem is caused by the typical (and I mean typical) driver who races to the speed bumps, bangs on the anchors (leading to brake particulate emission), accelerates again (more nitrogen oxides) as well as 10 - 20 percent more fuel and CO2. Probably the biggest indicator that many drivers don't give a toss, whatever they may say. I've done the training, got the badge, worked with vehicle engineers etc etc. Not of course mentioning the massive reduction in deaths and seriously injured. Quicker the two major political parties push for average speed cameras the better.

Odd response - definition of profiteering "the practice of making or seeking to make an excessive or unfair profit, especially illegally or in a black market". Not sure if any of those apply. What did you think of my previous post?

Not really sure why you why you are resorting to insults, not very grown up. Well not surprisingly I disagree, we are screwing up the planet and all need to take action. I expect you and others are doing the right thing but the rest of us need to do so too. I don't know where this nonsense of me banning cars comes from. It's less driving and smarter driving, using more environmentally appropriate vehicles, reducing single occupancy (ie better utility) and smoother driving (an easy win, that so many have no idea). I've posted elsewhere this really interesting study at Heathrow by government's Behaviour Change Team. Sadly whatever you did do make it attractive to reduce driving to work it ust didn't work. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/586376/sustainable-travel-evaluation-of-low-cost-workplace-interventions.pdf Some extracts "Increasing sustainable travel can help create growth in the economy and tackle climate change by cutting carbon emissions. It also influences our health, by improving air quality and physical activity, and can drive productivity by reducing congestion and providing easier access to jobs." Surely you have no objection to this "A key learning from this project is not to take self-reported opinions at face value when devising transport interventions. The gap that sometimes exist between stated preferences and observed behaviour is a well-documented phenomenon, which was reaffirmed by this project." This is so familiar on the various LTN threads "Oh I really believe in sustainable transport" "but they really have to have perfect alternatives before I will ditch the car" (And even then I wont) Not sure why you would object to spending a little more on driving, if it was to reduce the overall mileage, ie encourage others to ditch non-essential car journeys or ones where there is a straight forward alternative. I'm ready for the barrage that the research above is poorly evidences, or biased. I see very useful piece of work that justifies a more stick based approach because many human beings can't be trusted to do the right thing.

Oh I thought you were talking about the nutty boys, those pop skasters also known as Madness. You want madness - then look at this, often shown by our national broadcaster. I believe that one of the perpertrators also got an award for it. What woke nonsense. I blame it on Southwark, the Labour party, the Mayor, TfL, the rich people in leafy Dulwich and biased scientists.