littleEDfamily

I think having a first child may be considered a selfish act, but I think most people who have a second or subsequent children do so having given some consideration to the existing children, potential children as well as themselves. Let's not forget that essentially everything we do in life is selfish. Having kids is no more selfish than trying to get yourself a decent place to live in, a good education or having a fulfilling career. Even those who spend their lives 'doing good' are doing so primarily as they get satisfaction from it. I agree that the stigma attached to only children is unfair - the only children I know are wonderful, sociable people, but they all report feeling lonely as children and wishing they had a sibling. I'm sure there are others who feel quite differently, and equally I don't feel it's a parents duty to always put themselves second. I would have loved more siblings (esp a brother) - doesn't mean my parents should have had more children.

So true that we tend to focus on the immediate impact of having children. Like berryberry, having a sister when my mum got cancer (and later died) made it easier than it might have been had I had to go it alone. And also, the fact that my mum had a sister meant we have a wonderful Aunt that we adore in her own right and is a link to my late mum. On a lighter note, I had a long term boyfriend who was an only child and HATED it, and that always made me nervous about stopping at one. He said the best years of his childhood were when he was at boarding school...yikes!

hope is well, f, as you have gone strangely quiet... i suppose having a new born baby may have something to do with that....

I was thinking about this the other day, and I am glad we left 3.5 years between kids as (despite the ups and downs), I think it was great to be able to really appreciate your first child and every minute detail of their early years development without the 'distraction' of a second one. You're right that it's so much easier to travel with one child, and also make arrangements for one child so that you can do other things (like having a social life and working!) - it's definitely a less chaotic life! But.. the sheer joy I have had from watching my little ones' sibling relationship develop and the new dynamic of a four person family, has (despite the fact that I am beyond exhausted and frequently frazzled), made me so much happier than I ever was with just one child. It's odd, really, but 2 kids for me feels like a proper family and I like the idea of them having each other when I am gone. A very personal decision, but I tend to think you will probably never regret having a second, but if you are thinking about it enough to post on here and are as torn as you are, there is a real possibility you may regret sticking with one. There's always the twillight years to travel the world!!

Maybe a day in with baking and crafts? or what about All Fired up? or what about just a potter around central London to look at the lights, watch ice skating at Somerset House and have cupcakes and hot choc. Like the Science Museum idea too...

Yorkie Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Now that's what the badges should've said! I'd > like a biscuit badge please. I don't post that > often but am frequently lurking late evening/early > morning. The family room has kept me sane during > what has been one of the hardest things I've ever > done. Learning how to parent is tough and no-one > tells you that. Or if they do you don't really > believe them... Like others have already said, > it's knowing you're not alone in feeling that way. > I've had some amazingly supportive responses to my > woes, small and large. They were all real worries > at the time. > > Also, if you were stuck with something at work > you'd ask your colleagues/friends/boss for some > > help woulnd't you. We should treat this job, one > of our most important ones, in the same way. Ask > for help, seek reassurance we're doing it "right" > and remember that if your baby was scoring your > annual appraisal s/he'd always give you a 10 :-) > > > > (& er her comes the self-doubt bit, just read it > back & realized work analogy sounds a bit naff but > have resisted urge to edit!) I like the work analogy, Yorkie.

I'm going to be loathed for this, but I got a leaflet in my letter box today advertising a local farm shop that delivers IN ALL WEATHERS (we're in the country nowadays and our snow is bad). They're coming tomorrow morning and their fayre includes chocolate cake! two fingers to you woosy supermarkets! My gripe du jour is how irritating it is to breastfeed through layers and layers of clothes.... I can't even find my boobs nowadays!

Just caught up on this thread, and Belle, actually I read the Allsop interview in Good Housekeeping yesterday (I didn't buy it, ok, it was at the garden centre cafe!), and couldn't help but like her even more than I already did, not because I see her as some sort of role model necessarily, just because she doesn't seem as vain and boring as so many people in the public eye (ha - that's me being snarky now!) Didn't hear see the interview you mention, Pebbles, but I think she/ you make a very valid point that you cannot pay your way out of many of the exhausting and highly unglamorous aspects of parenting. It must be nice to get out of the majority of them though! I have to admit that despite 'sticking up' for the JoJo Maman founder (I'm sure she is inspirational to many and works her guts out) I wouldn't have tuned into her thinagme, as, like another poster, I find the whole 'wow it's a woman with a career and kids' thing a bit grating. I'd love, in my lifetime (or at least my daughters') for it to be no big deal to be a woman, a mother and a career in the same way it is for Dads.

ladywotlunches - Bud is most certainly NOT ale! It's a dirty, chemically lager.. he he....Try Badger's Golden Glory (can get from Sainsbury's - it has a 'delicate floral peach and melon aroma'). Yum! I love ale.... I also like the ones you can get at the Franklin's shop.

My daughter was fine. The jab seemed to hurt more than the others and is likely to scar :-(

EmilyE - you sound like you have it sussed. I am one of those people who gets totally derailed by any crying, shieking, general kid noise, so I think I panic when routines don't go to plan! Our elder daughter is OBSESSED with her sister. Mostly she's wonderful and quite helpful, but that does spill over into exuberance and boisterousness. I think I could trust her not to do anything deliberately horrible, but her desire to 'help' might lead us all into difficulty. For instance after overhearing her dad suggest baby was ready for 'real food', I caught her trying to feed her sister cornflakes. It does sound like I just need to bite the bullet and get on with it, but I am at the end of my tether by the end of the day and I am terrified just when I think some respite is nigh, the two of them will be getting up to shenanigans.

Thanks all - some good ideas for me to play with. (WOD - Yep, the nearly 4 year old is perfectly capable of dressing and undressing self and usually does, but I have to admit ofte at bedtime, I am so focussed on getting through the routine at speed so that over-tired baby doesn't start squaking, I do do most of it (don't most people still dry off their pre-schoolers, though? I love cuddling them when all squeaky clean in a towel). Did you all find the other one could be trusted not to 'mess with' their younger sibling (eg not put small objects into their cot they can choke on, crawling in with them and standing on their head as they do so etc etc)? I have these nightmares about what might go on while I think they're sleeping (and I am sleeping)....

berryberry, i wasn't calling you snarky (ie being personal), just commenting that your post came across as such to me. JoJo wouldn't have the same ability to negotiate cheap cost prices as would a massive company like Mothercare so it does make sense that on some items they charge more. (for the record I have absolutely no association with either shop). Anyway, sorry OP for sending this thread further off course. I hope you get a good response.

After Christmas, we are planning to transfer Sprog 2 (6 months) into the same room as Sprog 1 (just turning 4). I already struggle to manage both at bedtime, which I do on my own every night during the week. Have just about got the hang of bathing together and then dressing the little one first, then big one, then trying to stop the little one crying during storytime. I finally leave the older one to fall asleep while I feed the little on in our room, where she now sleeps (eventually). So, what's the best way to manage this shared room/ same bedtime thing? Can it work?

Thanks for letting us know, Gem14. PS That was a bit snarky, don't you think berryberry? I've always found JoJo reasonably priced. I personally don't shop there much as I tend to go bargain basement (George at ASDA)on basics and then splurge on certain things I really love for the sprogs, but I commend the woman for starting what is clearly a successful retail enterprise. I doubt her margins are much different from Mothercare or anyone else selling mass produced baby goods... and it's useful having a babystuff shop in ED you can walk to.

Hi Bonacara - as someone who is currently struggling to break 'bad' habits with my baby (not sleeping on own in cot, feeding too much, allowing her to feed and sleep in our bed!), I must agree with prdarling (although the delivery was harsh). You have plenty of time to sort things out before you leave baby with whatever childcare you decide on (definitely explore the childminder option as an alternative if you haven't done so already). I went back to work at 8 months with my first and I continued to do the first and last feeds of the day with ye old boobs. I would say at least 2 months before going back, you should try to have him taking a bottle (breastmilk or formula) for all day feeds and able to settle himself reasonably easily in a cot for a daytime nap. I'm relying on the wisdom of the Baby Whisperer forums to try and crack the latter. Resorting to settling with the boob is so easy, isn't it??? But I do believe ultimately it's a habit that must be broken... Good luck!!

We stayed at home, just the (then) 3 of us for Christmas a couple of years back - thought it would be nice/ good to start own traditions etc. To be honest, I thought it was a bit sad and dull. I think I'd rather spend an imperfect day with whomever's family/ friends/ random collections of people than staying on our own. But, then again, I quite like my family on both sides. Even if the in laws do feed me strange English Christmas food (prawn cocktail: vom!) and sickly sweet German wine.....

We use Nature Baby nappies. I can recommend on basis that neither of my children have had anything ever near approaching nappy rash (and I am quite lazy about changing nappies). Of course, may just be that we have been lucky, but I'd say this brand is worth a go.

Smiler's post reminded me about how recently one of my relatives got put on a plane back home early after visiting her son and wife (who live in Macau), and taking the 8 week old baby HIKING in a Baby Bjorn up some mountain/ big hill for hours without asking, saying the fresh air would do him good. She would truly be the MIL from hell. Hands on, but a ferkin nightmare!!!

My friend just got one similar to this from Britax, but hers was pink and denim (I got serious car seat envy): http://www.kiddicare.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productdisplayA_36+475_10751_-1_14573_96650_10001_14573 It's like a really good quality booster seat with good head support, arm rests and you can also make it narrower/ wider. She spent a long time looking into it, and I think I'll also get one when my daughter's current one has done its dash. Maybe not from Kiddicare, though as it always reminds me of Jordan.

This made me laugh. I have no tips really, but I think it's definitely a good idea to hide away reading books using the baby as an excuse. That's what I do when I can no longer stand the inane chit chat and kid noise.

Ha! Knew the English comment might not go down too well, hence my qualification that it does depend on the individual. Nonetheless I do stand by my belief that, generally speaking, cultural factors do influence how grandparents see their role. A Chinese friend of mine's mother was her first child's full time carer when mum went back to work, despite living in a different city (she would fly up on a Sunday night and spend the week there, flying back on Friday night). Did all the housework too... I do think less hands-on is preferable to overbearing and interfering (not to say you have to be hands on to be overbearing and interfering), and I regularly thank my lucky stars we don't have any of those types of grandies to deal with. That said I am still very bitter about having had to get up ON MY WEDDING NIGHT to look after my 1 year old while grandma slept ...... errrrr.......

My side of the family, unfortunately doesn't live in this country, but we are Portuguese on one side, and there, the norm is for grandparents (and the rest of the family) to be fully involved. No problem ditching kids with family and taking off for a holiday (my parents left me and my sister with grandparents for up to 5 weeks when we are a baby and pre-schooler). My sister and aunt, if visiting, will do the 'host's' washing, put kids to bed, get up with them and give them breakfast, tell them off etc etc. Rather than being a favour, it's insulting if the other party doesn't expect you to get involved. However, my husband's side, are English, and dare I say the attitude here is 'all the enjoyment, none of the work'. I mean they will read the kids stories, and generally amuse them (and are generally very lovely grandparents) but when it comes to the less than glamourous jobs, it's straight back to mum and dad. I remember when my elder daughter was young just wanting to scream and them and say "Can't you see I need some help here!! She doesn't need presents, can you rather not change a nappy or tidy up her room for me!!". I do think it can be a bit of a cultural thing (although I have heard of an English grandfather who comes around and does his daughter's ironing - can we clone him??? And I am sure there are many other english grandparents who are 'hands on'). So, I know totally what you mean, ClareC, grandparents visits can mean catering combined with normal childcare, rather than a break, and I don't think we are alone in this experience.

helibell, enjoyed reading your thoughtful post. i was thinking about this sort of thing the other day and thought about how our generation of women have been stitched up a kipper thinking we our lives wolud be free of the tedium and grind that is simply unavoidable if you go down the kids route. i am so grateful to the women's movement for the choices we now have, however a by-product of all that progressiveness, for me anyway, has been that i got tricked into thinking i could have a thoroughly glamourous life, free of the exhaustion, irritation and boredom that sometimes (often!) comes with having small children. with my first daughter, i experienced no end of frustration trying to keep up my 'previous life', but now with 2, i have just decided to embrace where I am now, and put in the 'glamour' where I can - things like fabulous home cooked meals. I get a great deal of comfort talking to women of my mother's generation about their experiences. I was having a rally tough day the other day and a lovely women of a certain age in a cafe seemed to look through into my soul and said 'it is all worth it', and I said 'really, is it, do you promise?' - she smiled and said 'oh, yes and you are doing a great job'. It was just what I needed.

Yet another vote for DMC (The Lanes). Adore, adore, adore. I especially love how in the days immediately after the birth they would turn up on their push bikes for a check up and a natter. It sounds minor, but having nice, empathetic, knowledgeable ladies popping round to your house in those fuzzy, painful post-partum days is just so valuable.