James

Anyone got any good vegetarian recipes?

What sort of donor? A heart donor? Yes, as a meat eater you may be needing one of those at some point.

>>Just because someone is veggie does not mean that they eat a more sustainable diet than a meat eater (am not anti-veggie by the way, just want to make a point). Categorically incorrect, as meat is more unsustainable

I recently flew to China with Virgin Atlantic and my only real complaint was the dull, completely uninspiring veggie meal. It seemed as if the assumption was that if you're vegetarian, you're not really bothered about food. Contrast this with my experience of Air India. Delayed by 6 hours, the flight was chaotic and the interior of the plane outdated and shabby to say the least. But the vegetarian curry served was fantastic. By far the best plane food I've ever eaten. They could teach Virgin a thing or two.

Ah, I get you now Bob. I agree that veggie options are often poor, but this is due to ignorance and bad cooking. You only need to go somewhere like Kerala (predominantly veggie region of India) to realise how wonderful it can be. So in a way I suppose we agree on this point.

Oh you are just baiting me now, you trolls (Loz & Bob)! But I am enjoying this so never mind. For the record, I love my food. And vegetarian food can be wonderful, satisfying and imaginative. The equivalent of your ridiculous generalisations about vegetarian cuisine would be someone basing their opinion of all meals containing meat on what is served at the Aberdeen Steakhouse.

I didn't want to carry on, it's other people who keep bringing it up again!

Missing the point Jeremy. 'What tastes good' is a culturally relative notion... largely based on what you were brought up with as a child.

We have been culturally programmed to see some foods as treats and this indoctrination means that many people won't accept meat-free meals. It's the same reason many children (particularly disadvantaged ones) are so addicted to sweets and processed foods. It's all culturally relative. This explains why diets vary so much from one part of the world to another.

You could be right about Ottolenghi Bob but I do think a fundamental shift in people's eating habits is beginning to occur, and the more enlightened restaurants are responding to it. There is also the counter-trend for posh burgers (meat liquor and so on). My point is we need both to satisfy people's demands. I would be far happier if meat-eaters went for organic, responsibly-sourced meat than some of the low-grade stuff on offer that's unnecessarily cruel, unhealthy and poor quality. However I still believe many people's idea of vegetarian food is based on outdated stereotypes and misconceptions. It's a shame when this includes restauranteurs as they ought to know better.

NewWave makes a perfectly reasonable point. Perhaps you are still dining in the 70s, in which case I feel sorry for you that le Moulin has closed.

Aha. Will be interesting to hear what the food is actually like after all this conjecture!

Re-read my posts and yes I think I was a bit confrontational. Sorry if it came across that way. And to be honest, I am quite heartened by the enlightened views on here from veggies and meat-eaters alike. Right, end of veggie debate, I promise. So when is the Patch opening again? Properly I mean?

So how am I picking a fight or trotting out stereotypes? You don't make any sense. But I can understand why you want to throw in the towel. There is no more to say.

That is classic. I have some lovely meat-eating friends who I dearly respect. But I also know meat-eaters (like some people on here) who will happily pick a fight with a vegetarian by saying ignorant, ill-informed things and trotting out lazy stereotypes. Then when they are confronted by the facts they retort with the old "stop shoving it down my throat/being preachy" etc. You can't have it both ways. Either stop marginalising other people or expect to be criticised when you criticise other people's life choices. So-called 'sustainable' restaurant fails to offer adequate vegetarian options. Face it, my point stands.

Incidentally Blue Brick Cafe seems to do very well and it's fully vegetarian.

Back to the veggie debate. Indian Mischief was rubbish! I went there twice (I wanted to give it another chance after shambolic first time). If a decent veggie restaurant were to open in East Dulwich it would make a killing (pardon the pun, couldn't resist it!) Some of you meat eaters seem to be suggesting that it is impossible for you to go without meat for a single meal! I find this totally weird. What do you think will happen if you don't have a steak - are you scared you might start compulsively weaving baskets or something? When I go to a restaurant I enjoy different kinds of food, not eating the same kind of stuff over and over again.

I guess what I'm saying is it's high time the restaurants of East Dulwich caught up with the Ottolenghi's of this world and started realising the potential of beautiful, satisfying veggie cuisine instead of being so in thrall to meat.

Jeremy I guess the point is that meat is not a daily staple. If you look at the world as a whole, people who eat a vegetarian or mainly vegetarian diet are by far in the majority. Huge swathes of India are vegetarian and this has fostered an incredibly rich and varied cuisine. We are part of a weird minority of nations who indistrialised early and have been indoctrinated to perceive meat as an essential part of a 'normal' diet. It isn't. It's actually an unnecessary luxury that causes unnecessary pollution, waste and cruelty. And funnily enough, our terrible health as a nation - high rates of cancers, heart disease, obesity and so on - is largely due to excessive consumption of red meat.

Blue Brick cafe is great, love the place. It is surprising there isn't more for veggies around here though.

Never mind the cruelty (which I do mind), meat is a vastly more wasteful and inefficient way of feeding people. Red meat is also incredibly unhealthy and has been linked to a whole range of health problems. On average vegetarians live longer, healthier lives. These are the facts deluded meat-eaters don't want to face.

I apologise for using the word deluded. I guess some of us veggies get a bit defensive sometimes when we are openly slagged off and marginalised so often. To Jeremy: What if you went to a restaurant and four out of five dishes contained different types of squash. You might say "What if I don't want to eat squash?" To which I might reply "You anti-squash extremist, just because you have chosen to be one of the squash-hating minority, why should you insist on being offered a whole range of squash-free dishes?"

I agree with Chips. And to be honest, one veggie option out of five is a bit rubbish. Meat eaters can eat veggie but we can't eat meat! Given the fact the Patch is supposed to be about sustainability, more veggie options would be a good place to start. But they are probably unwiling to upset the deluded meat-eating majority. A wasted opportunity.

Has anyone made a joke about it not being a PATCH on the old place yet?

Reopening East Brixton strikes me as a great idea. At the moment getting from Peckham or ED to Brixton takes forever by road considering how near it is. Also we'd be able to change onto the Victoria line