edhistory

As requested by Eileen. Uncluttereed map showing the location of Peckham Rye. Faden - Kent - 1800 [Kent starts at the green shading] John K

I needed to access this for another purpose. I thought it might be of interest. John K

It's difficult to do an accurate overlay. It would need 50+ control points to manipulate the Cary to fit the Ordnance Survey projection. This rough partial overlay shows how much Peckham Rye Common land was stolen by the Bowyers. John K

> James Barber the resident ? John K

From Cary's road atlaa. Among the interesting features: a] What is now Barry Road is shown as continuous. b] The dotted line shows our southern border (although at a larger scale it is less smooth). As it is shown as a map feature, what Lewisham Council now call "The Horniman Triangle" can be seen to be in Camberwell/Surrey. c] And, only for those with eyes that wish to see, this is yet another old map that shows the location of Peckham Rye. John K vxo ubdary w

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > To repeat my question - why should historical > boundries be considered more relevant than modern > ones? Who said that? John K

Bic Basher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If we use ED as the area surrounding the Lordship > Lane shopping area, I'd say it starts at the top > of DKH including those surrounding streets which > are in SE15 off Grove Vale up, then up to Peckham > Rye Common up to just past the where it then > becomes 'Honor Oak' on the Southwark side. > > East of EE I'd go for Townley Road with LL east of > there including the Dulwich Library/Plough > shopping area and up to the Wood Vale boundary as > being in Dulwich. This distinguishes between the > main shopping area of LL and the smaller retail > areas at the eastern end. That is pretty accurate excepting the PECKHAM CREEPS and the FOREST HILL ADJUSTMENTS. You probably noted how your description follows the natural features of our valley. John K

LondonMix Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Oddly, Bessemer Grange is SE5 even thought is > fully surrounded by other postcodes. Probably orphaned as a result of the Sainsbury's change. > Anyway, who cares... The history is interesting > of course but its not the most important thing in > life! And in 2012 it is interesting to know that East Dulwich is not limited to the SE22 post code. John K

Gidget Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > John K, > When did the SE5 into SE22 happen? That is just > bizarre. I believe that anyne can apply to have a postcode changed. We could ask Sainsbury's if they did. I don't know the exact date. > The flats opposite Sainsburys - Dog Kennel Hill > Estate? are all SE22 which is also a bit random. > Were they also SE5 at one point? I beliee they were always in SE22. Somewhere I have Kelly's Post Office Directory Maps for 1922 and 1946 but it may take several days to find them. These can provide clarification. John K

MrBen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I find Melbourne Grove a bit dark and dank for > some reason (residential part). That's interesting. If you imagine folk from the Friern settlement (by Dulwich Library) going to church at St Giles (Act of Conformity and all that) they would walk along the left-hand upright of the "H" of the original East Dulwich road pattern. But instead of a straight line from where Melbourne Grove joins Lordship Lane they would continue north along Lordship Lane and around Grove Vale before resuming the straight line to church. The sparse evidence points to a natural drainage problem. John K

the-e-dealer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think Dulwich LIbrary is a good border marker. This goes back to landscape history. This part of the western East Dulwich boundary follows the watershed between the Peck and Effra valleys. John

Gidget Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How is it that Grove Vale on both sides is SE22 > and the roads leading off it like Coplestone, > Oglander, Ondine are SE15? Also, the new > development off Coplestone is SE22 and it was only > recently built. St. John's Church is SE22 and the > school that belongs to is on Adys Rd. SE15. The land where the Dog Kennel Hill Sainsbury's was built was originally in SE5. This yhen mysteriously changed to SE22. So instead of a Camberwell Sainsbury's we have (East) Dulwich Sainsbury's. John K

Southern boundary map: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/file.php?5,file=30306

Otta Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The forest hill thing was meant to be a joke. The > point is, we live in 2012, and no one except for > you would conside Bellenden Road to be part of > East Dulwich. It's not even borderline close. > > You say that post codes don't count because they > came in around WW1. I dread to think what you > think about Israel! Why is it not even borderline close? John K

Applespider Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Isn't the official southern boundary the north > side of Wood Vale since that's the Southwark > boundary and it's still served by the Dulwich > telephone exchange although the postcode is SE23. > Having said that, the western end of Wood Vale > feels more like Forest Hill and the eastern end > feels closer to Honor Oak so who knows. This is the current postal district and local authority boundary. The original East Dulwich boundary ran between Horniman's Museum and the petrol station. There is a boundary post on One Tree Hill showing the boundary immediately before the current one. John K

> I think it means that in 1877 a parish existed that included Bellenden The parish existed before 1877 and before Bellenden was even dreamt of by Victorian property developers. Would you prefer a map showing the secular boundary? John K And as a footnote, you might want to reconsider your histories of Crystal Palace, Penge, and Forest Hill. An interesting quirk of history is that Penge was once part of Battersea.

computedshorty Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > To end this dispute and proove who is correct, use > your feet and read the SE22 on those Road Signs. > Most people have taken the trouble to find out > where they live. SE22 is the area that has its mail processed by Silvester Road. SE15 is the area that has its mail processed by Highshore Road. Both designations are first world war inventions. John K

tfm33 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This shows that East Dulwich is within the parish > of St. John the Evangelist, but that doesn't end > the debate; the neighbouring parish of St. Giles > contains Camberwell and Denmark Hill, and they're > distinct locales aren't they? > Debate? Bellenden Village was built on the fields of East Dulwich. Historic fact. John K

Otta Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That map just shows that it was part of a parish > (does this parish still exist). I don't think that > means it's part of the area. What do you think it means? John K

Keef, Here's a map readily to hand. You can see the northern boundary of East Dulwich Parish. You can also see that Bellenden Village (South of Choumert Road) was built in East Dulwich. John K

Burbage Wrote: > Given the level of interest in the issue, I have > sacrificed a portion of my afternoon in pursuit of > enlightenment and am now in the happy position of > being able to publish the results here for the > benefit of all. I trust no further clarification > will be required. Except that it is wrong. John K

Saila Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > No way - Bellenden is absolutely 100% in Peckham > as is Adys/Oglander etc > > East Dulwich is SE22 - as LondonMix says Wrong. John K

tfm33 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > woah woah woah, since when is Bellenden road a > part of East Dulwich? From memory, 1865. John K

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1003723

This one? http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?20,1004299