SeanMacGabhann

Mankind has achieved far more through co-operation and care than greed As for survival of the fittest - careful what you wish for.

a first time poster who calls people "retarded" Nice welcome btw As you and the 15 year old (same person? mates?)are keen on clich?d truisms - "finders keepers" etc, here is another one It's better to give than receive

Oh and if people started telling other people what to do based on the "teachings" of the pasta monster, I'd be upset with them too

Indeed - but for the reasons I gave They get upset because religion has it's claws in so much legislation with the ridiculous outcomes that entails You don't have to leave the country to see what I mean but if you look at countries such as Ireland and the US, not to mention the far east you start to see how much more pernicious and oppresive it is

Even as I did mine I knew it was cheesy But keef's point finally pushed me to take action and remove it

Yep, turn of this year. Not sure if anything has changed since then mind you The front itself (including the windows and curtains) really reminds me of my hometown in Ireland - the main shopping street had a few places like that. And a few open shops which looked like that come to think of it...

HAL - tolerance is always a good thing. What would you suggest - banning religious faith? - a clear recipe for disaster But if anyone asks a question about God existing I'll give my answer If any government imposes stupid legislation to appease the militant religious crowd then I'll voice my opposition

I'm not sure I'd agree it's the one area but no matter for now Obviously technically correct but it's unavoidable given that if anyone just says "no, move on" that is deemed arrogant If I start a thread about our blue fairy/pasta monster in space and ask the question "do they exist" - no-one is going to be outraged if anyone says "course not ye daft aputh" And therein lies the problem. Why do people who believe in God get so upset? They still hold all the good cards? Sorted in event of an afterlife? Check Strong bordering on exclusive access to government in many countries - check All atheists get to do is suggest maybe people who believe in something they choose to believe should go about their business and not dictate to others - and we get called arrogant and militant

some historical discussion on same point jules http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,205603,205711#msg-205711

And I was overexasperated in my reply - sorry for that - but still, your statement that because we cannot disprove God therefore to deny he exists is in itself a faith is, as I understand it, no different from Jeremy's pasta monster in space example? I do like Mockney's statement "Religion should have mo say in the law in this country. Likewise rationalist atheism shouldn't intefere with peoples right to practice their faith." I'm not aware of any atheist actually interfering with people's rights to practice their faith. The reason I get so worked up about it (to the extent of annoying others) is the extent religion contaminates public life - wether it's the 25 grand fine in Ireland recently introduced, or seeing women forced to cover their faces ( and if anyone thinks that's a good idea, I'll start to believe the "but it's my choice" brigade when I see their menfolk adopt a similar liberating dress code) and examples ad infinitum

Yep, as kel say,posing the question again, is at best going to get the same mix of answers None are great. But I usually have a good time in most of them. But for me Tandoori Nights is the best - the least oily, the most fresh ingredients etc. The staff are great but I really like the staff in most of the others as well The ones I tend not to go to are Curry Cabin, Surma and Pistachio Club - least ambience and the food is at the bottom end of average

Atheism is NOT a faith - and it REALLY bugs me when people say it is Not believing in spaghetti monsters in space is NOT a faith They are the only realistic position in the face of zero evidence to the contrary. To choose to believe in something that can't be in any way shape or form is entirely everyone's right, and good luck to them. But that is not the same thing as inventing something, and then claiming that anyone who doesn't believe in it is choosing a similar "faith" based path If I genuinely believe I can heal the sick by power of thought alone and you choose to not believe me - you are not adopting a similar but different "faith" - you are just, quite rightly saying "you're making it up!"

or.. another way of looking at this.... Woof - we get the joke now. Please stop

computedshorty if you wish to know more about who runs it, you could have a read of this http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?12,11 and drop him a PM or email if you need more info perhaps?

"Who has the right to decide what is a valid topic? " Well that depends on what is meant as valid - is someone trying to invalidate the thread? I don't think so If a thread is over repetitive because someone can't be fagged to do a search, or at least differentiate it, then surely it is reasonable for someone to point this out? They haven't demanded any punishment or said the topic isn't of interest to anyone. So in that sense I would say no-one is saying the thread is invalid They might be saying it's unnecessary because it already exists - which again seems reasonable to me, as they linked to teh previous iterations - look a whole welter of info on tap already! Let's start with that and see if we can add to it, rather than re-invent the wheel?

Well, partly self-preservation surely. Without society, our lives would be much shorter and much more brutish. And it's no small feat in itself so a "higher purpose" would have to be pretty special Just what would that be? What would be "higher"? If we are beholden to a creator and will indeed suffer judgement, then I would argue that our lives are LESS meaningful than they are without a creator. We are all part of some divine reality show? Shoot me now... As for MP's statement is the corollary true - ie Claiming there IS a God is a)arrogant and b)pointless because if that's true, then given the equal footing on both sides of the argument, can we remove religion from schools and and civil law and let people who want to believe believe and people who don't don't? That would work for me But if it's not true then it sound like people are giving more weight to one side of the argument than the other

a very good point. unfortunately partly contradicted by

I thought that was a generalisation too far myself DC.. I know you said "most" but daizie nailed it

but we can't claim to be at the limits of our scientific knowledge can we Jeremy?

I wouldn't say AS bad - I won't have any choice if God makes himself known but to go "well done God, you tricked me I was wrong" But I don't see why God, as a concept that we have to decide is or isn't real, is worthy of any more seriousness than say, Can cats speak English, they just hide it from us It's entirely impossible to prove the negative but why are people who are increasingly questioning religions place in the world so... disliked? It can't just be arrogance and smugness - otherwise religion itself would never have had a foothold in Ireland (a country which has recently introduced a 25000 euro fine for anyone who is proven to have blasphemed) and what about in in England where "Exams for which pupils are expected to believe that the Loch Ness monster disproves evolution have been deemed equivalent to international A-levels by a UK government agency. The National Recognition Information Centre (Naric) in Cheltenham, which advises universities and employers on the rigour of lesser-known qualifications, has ruled that the International Certificate of Christian Education (ICCE) is comparable to courses such as international A-levels, the Times Education Supplement has found. " Taking a hardline stance that God probably doesn't exist seems sane to me. If I leave that "probably" in btw, I'm accused of hedging my bets. If I take it out then I'm accused of arrogance.

Sorry Declan, but you are either being a Devil's Advocate (teeny irony ) or you might believe this stuff If there is a divine creator/God/single parent and it sees fit to reincarnate me as an ant because of what I have done in this life? Well, because it's the Drawing Room I shan't swear - but you can probably guess my response But let's say my bad deeds were worthy of demotion to insect-life - surely that has to be a life badly lived, and our purpose is to create a society which a) discourages such behaviour b) failing that, punishes such behaviour If someone breaks into my house and murders my family, it is frankly small consolation that he/she is going to come back in 100 years as an ant!

And I'm sure God will be proud of you Keef

If there is no point in existence why is there life in the first place? Why are you a human and why is Rex a dog? I'm with David Attenborough on this one. "He told me that he had been so pestered by those who saw a divine pattern in nature that he had now developed a stock response. ?I tell them they ought occasionally to think less of beautiful things like hummingbirds and orchids and sunflowers and think of other, less attractive things. They might, for example, think of the parasitic worms that live only in the eyeballs of human beings. Think of that worm boring its way through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa. A worm that?s going to make him blind. Are you telling me that God or an intelligent designer created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child?s eyeball??" Do you place any merit on those people who claim to have had near death experiences where it seemed they were going 'somewhere'? Decidedly not - they nearly died. Their critical faculties and brain neurons are not the most trustworthy Could reincarnation not include coming back as something other than a human? Anything COULD happen. the skies could part and God himself could show his face. But really.. it's not likely is it? What would be the driving force behind me coming back as an ant. or worse.. The only response I get is "ours is not to reason why" when really the answer should be "our only purpose should be to reason why" Are we really here just to have as entertaining a life as is possible without there being a reason for it? Not everything in life is entertaining - most of us deal with heartbreaking situations at many junctins in life. But I like how we as a species sometimes find solutions to the very harsh reality that is living on this planet. Of course I hate how much we muck up as well... but why the search for a reason?

a bit lounge-ish those replies?

well, there it is.. something that's been bothering me for years. Cheers quids