SeanMacGabhann

I suspect most places are open - for teas, Chandelier are open if I recall a sign when I went in a few days back their Russian Caravan tea is my new fix (and remember this is a happy Easter thread so let's not have people piling in with prices - it's an option) Edit: maybe that sign referred to Bank Hol Monday? If it is closed today, sorry !)

how could hi forget the Hibernian (or Hi-B) in Cork. A famously cantankerous landlord and you have to go up some steps that also lead to a hairdressers to get in... I saw Anthony Bourdain was in there once or twice

shoshntosh... feisty! I like it In weather like this the amount of strollers, cars, market stalls and whatever else is irrelevant - it's bleedin orrible out there If there are no plans to increase the size of the market I would leave things pretty much as they are traffic-wise. It all seems to rub along ok Apart from Mr Sparkes the butcher - I hope people stop crashing into his van

As Annaj says a few early starters at 8pm and then people drift in for a while - although after about 10:30 some people don't so much drift as "arrive" ;-) usually manages to be about 20-30 of us with maybe 4 or 5 first timers each time so you should feel right at home the CPT is where I went to my first forum drinks too so it has happy memories above and beyond being a pub I already like

hey that's my line seanmlow ;-) (I'm actually amazed this one hasn't been lounged yet - is it still ED specific?)

azul can push out a full beard at will overnight quids. mockney is another hirsute forumite. I could not shave for 3 months and just look like someone who hasn't shaved for 3 months...

so many points - so little point Quids, i have never said the 2 groups are exclusive. A large vocal group of people are often heard on the media saying they will never give up the car or use public transport but I don't think I have accused anyone of that here? I'm sure many people will nod along to that but naturally I take issue with it. I did say I gave up the car but ONLY as a rebuttal to the suggestion that as a non-driver my opinion didn't count. Equally, I never said it was A Good Thing in and of itself - but if you think it is for "the best" then thanks for the kind words The revenue thing: once again I stand accused of being naive - when I have already said: I suspect it is raising revenue If revenue-raising is a SUCH an issue, time and time I ask the question - how would YOU or anyone else better manage traffic?? Your last point is presumably about CPZs - I'm neutral either way. Judging by the threads where this has been a hot topic, people who drive and want a parking space are divided about the issue - it's not anything to do with cars v public transport kford said: you mean some people think themselves above the law?? shocking isn't it - but isn't that how the thread started? DO you reckon those youths sit at the back of the bus complaining about the revenue inspectors just being a revenue raiser for the council? It's obvious there are 2 camps here but I generally don't care about that. But people who complain without at least coming up with a solution will always have a special place in my heart

classic Michael - but more of a quote than a catchphrase? 15 years later I'm occassionally still tempted to say "That's you that is..." a la History Today

in the port of Amsterdam there's a sailor who drinks, and he drinks and he drinks, and he drinks once again Personally I'm partial to any pub which has 2000AD murals all over the walls. Bowie on the jukebox as well and I may even move town. Aberdeen is a tough sell tho Other great pubs I remember The Beehive in Swindon (speaking of hard sells) - a place that kept me sane for 3 years in Wiltshire The Fountain in Whimple Devon - I watched the whole of the 94 World Cup in there and had my stag as well - top landlord Filthy McNasty's in Angel about 10 years ago (another pub which is a shadow if it's former self) The Porter Cottage in Sheffield

BN5 - cheers for the support but I've all but given up on this one - logic and reason seem to play little part As one of the people who has made a decision to not drive in London in part based upon the proliferation of both a) other drivers and b) the all-round hassle of driving in London I would say I was more than suitably positioned to comment on conditions in London - but as I also said for some people it's not longer about motoring - it's just some conspiracy theory about revenue-raising. Annaj posited a good example of someone who drives but cares enough to not feel they own the highway or that the council is out to get them - and I suspect that she represents the voice of many But lacking from some posters is what, instead of stiff financial penalties, they would use to curb increasing traffic and increasing congestion. But then again, according to some people there isn't really a problem

Not only a good thread but I think mine bears close similarity to yours The Double Locks on the banks of the river a mile or two outside Exeter used to be my absolute favourite. A beer drinkers haven, lager was frowned upon but the food portions and prices were fantastic Again, as above, it was bought by a brewery and sold on to a bigger one and it is now a shadow of it's former self

ditto your arguments in 2004 tube travel was a lot cheaper in comparison by now petrol has gone up a fair bit while tube travel has doubled once again - I'm not singling out motorists - just pointing out that they are not a special case Motorists are always pointing out how they would use public transport more if it wasn't much cheaper to use the car - so it seems like that makes motorists the relative winners. So why all the complaining?

endless drivelly waffle without a point what? what is it you want?? plenty of people get away with fines on TfL? whoop de do! Same with motorists . Both as bad as each other. What do you want me to say.. I don't have a "side" - You want me to agree that commuters on public transport get higher fines? Sure, sign me up Bendy buses still have people who don't pay? oh my days let me have a lie down - next thing you'll be telling me about people who earn more than 500k not paying tax You want wardens to be policed better so they don't ticket the wrong people - I'm on your side! But no - apparently "I can't comment". The f@@@ing cheek of it Stop with the bleeding heart motorist stories ok? I know how to drive. I know what a parking bay looks like. I know how few of them there are. I know how aggresive/illegal warden activity is. I know how to shop without a car. I know how many more cars there are on the road every year (err.. ok not how MANY exactly.. but it's lots). Based on all this and more information I can live my life without feeling like I'm some poor victim. Even when Ken puts the cost of a single tube journey less than 100 yards up to an outrageous ?4 - I don't go falling to my knees bewailing the loss of innocence. It is what it is... I don't pay it, I don't cheat and I don't complain if I get caught anyway... I don't say "well if it was ?1 I would say fair enough but he's taking the piss now so I don't have to worry about the law. Or concentration" Some of you aren't even talking about motorists any more anyway. It's some weird victim mentality thing about wasting money, councils, Ken et al - as if non-motorists don't have to face the same shite Cost of motoring - let's have a look http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3776913.stm ok ok BBC but it's the same story from pretty much any source. So... get over it ok?

I don/'t think I do hold them up as the ideal structure - as you say - "those that seek power are the least suitable to wield it". I've always believed that too - so I'm not as disillusioned as you. And I believe it was ever thus So now what? Do I believe the individual is best able to decide? Definitely not... so I'm stuck between an inefficient council and an often selfish joe public But leaving aside councils ineptitude.. I do believe that parking and traffic restrictions are important. Doesn't mean I agree with exactly how they are implemented. But I know what they are. I know how to avoid penalty fines. I know how to vote So I will never complain to anyone if I have done something wrong and expect sympathy. That's my point.

???? - over-enthusiastic wardens exist and are definitely a major pain. I know of too many people who have to go through the same process you describe and I feel for you but the case being described here is someone who already admits they knew they were in the wrong. If I was so minded I could see a connection between the number of people who take a similar attitude to the rules and the subsequent aggressive pursuit of motorists (many innocent) by councils. If the general public were more civic minded then the councils would have less of a footing on this..

exactly - and forgive the third person in my paragraphs above - I had assumed you had done "your post of the day" a pint back at you as well :)-D (now if only those pesky trolls were as thoughtful!)

you think? I don't believe MM is, by nature, all that argumentative and as he says, the original post from BN5 caught him at a bad time. Having expanded his points further (in what is possibly one of the longest posts on here?) I can't see any point in countering - we wouldn't be bringing anything new to the table. He makes points I disagree with but it's clear he has thought about them and applied his own values and good on him I say. It's not a if it is someone taking a reactionary stance. Sometimes agreeing to disagree can be the best course

you said it was going to be long MM and you weren't kidding. I think your final paragraph has it right when you say we'll agree to differ - I have no desire to take on each and every point only for you to have to come back and then for me to reply and etc etc. Some of the points you make are good and some others I would still robustly argue - but it is such a wide debate and I doubt we will ever meet in the middle I'm unlikely to vote for Ken this time but will never vote for Boris however

or hey - what if I forget to pay my tube fare? Or my bus fare? It's a stealth tax when they fine me for not paying for public transport!! It only takes a couple of mistakes and I'm paying hundred of pounds!!!!! I'm a busy worker and my mind is elsewhere those quirky "double yellow lines" - man if only they made them a standard drivers could understand "my mind is elsewhere" - EXACTLY the sort of person I want behind a large f***ing car just so they can complain they didn't see me crossing the road and by your logic if you drive every day and don't use public transport you can't criticise public transport?? Moses wept PS - I do drive and have a clean license. Have done for 15 years although it's true I no longer drive in London. I have NO objection whatsoever to people driving - my beef is with the adolescent whinings of children who complain when they are caught doing something wrong

shoshntosh if you've been on this forum a while now you will be aware of "????"'s charms (or otherwise) I'm not aware of anything locally so you may already be aware of this one journalism evening course one day a week in central London?

;-) I had an idea you were unable to join back in for whatever reason yesterday MM. to be continued....

ahh but who does the test? If the test consists of things like "do you think it right that you should obey parking laws?" the apparently many drivers on here would answer no - so does that make them a @#$%&?

I didn't realise I was on a naughty step. But I would most probably argue about it if I was on one ;-)

This is all just blatant horseshit. We are not talking about abstractions here - it's real everyday problems To take one example that happens every single morning when I get the 40 bus up by the library. We wait for the bus just outside Plough DIY - car pulls up and parks outside Lloyds bank - in a bus lane/bus stop - blatant breach of code. While he/she is too lazy to park around the corner, the buses and cars which have just come through the lights now back up, buses have to go wide around the car that shouldn't be there, blocking ONcoming traffic as well. I've seen the cashpoint not working and so they go on a wander of the shops in the area leaving the car there oblivious to the problems they are causing but no doubt indignant if they get a fine It isn't a repeat offender - it's multiple people every single day just in the 5 minutes I'm waiting for the bus - because they are too freakin lazy. I will either get killed having a go at the wrong person one day or will end up killing someone It's not councils - it's arrogant people that cause the problems 'k?

indeed he is TT - I'm a big fan of his posts I wasn't pulling him up for ranting mind you - I was more... erm.. disagreeing with his points. I like when people have a good rant