El Pibe

Nicely predicted!!

Duck & Cover

I think I was playing Ting Tang Tommy through Chuck & Di's wedding, but enjoyed staying up really lae that night for the street party. I watched Live Aid in snippets on and off throughout the day, but spent most of the day faffing around with friends, I seem to recall we may have bought a four pack of Harp and drank it in the woods. Di's funeral, woke with a vicious hangover and my mate and I decided to go to the local pub at 10 in the morning to see if we could spend the day avoiding it all. There was a group of about 20 like minded souls who managed to persuade landlady that it was an exceptional day and she opened up. I had four pints of guinness and kahlua for breakfast and I have to say the rest of the day became somewhat hazy. Live 8? I have to say I don't really recall anything specific about diamond jubilee, suffice to say I wasn't at anything though.

And what the hell is everyone doing up at his hour, I just got woken up by three year old needing wee wee, what's your excuse ;)

How can it not be the government that has control of the process when they have the power. Actor a attempts to force behaviour from actor b using asymmetric techniques. It doesn't matter who a and b are, nothing can progress until actor b is willing to progress it or has their hand forced by actor a. You think if the a Palestinians put up flashing invitations to strike a peace deal including a nice table and statements that they'll raise their posteriors invitingly that it'll make a blind bit of difference if b Israel aren't interested? That's how power works. If the IRA had shot down all the helicopters, paralysed troop movements by pinning them down, wrested effective control of the territory from stormont, ended tax revenues and paralysed Northerm Ireland then they would be dictating things as you say. Syria, might be an example of this latter situation, but they hadn't managed that in NI. In fact of the bishopsgate bomb, an attempt to suffocate the UK economically by chasing away business from the city and stifling our economy, this campaign failed, the team were arrested, thanks in part to tip offs from informants, and 49 arrests were made, 19 of whom were sent to prison, as well as the confiscation of huge amounts of materiel. Yet the point was made that the mainland was vulnerable I don't credit Thatcher with anything, its there in black and white. In fact when Major attempted to say in 1993 that he was prepared to speak to the IRA though it would choke him to do so, it was the IRA who leaked the fact that they'd been speaking for three years, when open talks started in December 1993. IMO not sure how its possible to interpret things otherwise. That said, I totally agree with you that she made things significantly worse, she agreed to the opening of channels right at the end of her tenure, a move she apparently subsequently said she deeply regretted. My whole point was that both sides, not just the government, needed to come to the realisation negotiation was necessary, and that it took further conflict before the IRA were willing to concede that talks were the way forward. I've seen mcguiness interviewed about the difficulties of persuading his side that a negotiated political settlement was necessary, many of whom believed anything short of total victory was tantamount to surrender or treason. Some, as we know, still do, but they are just as mistaken that a military victory is possible, more so now that they've lost popular support among any but the hardest line communities.

Fine, but it's a pretty vanilla analysis to be fair, in fact that narrative barely evenqualifies as analysis. I'm not espousing anything controversial here.

"One Mile Away" a documentary about how the bitter gang rivalry in Birmingham was brought to the peace table on thursday night on Channel 4, could make for interesting viewing http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/v5qym/one-mile-away

yeah oops and sorry, that was because I'm still logged in as Mockney Piers on Opera, and I was doing some testing on that browser when I clarified my clarifications. It wasn't done on purpose (I avoid mockers like the plague as I feel all guilty and start having to tidy up the forum when I do log in) I'll re-edit it in Chrome as EP if it makes you more comfortable.

Why on earth would our positions be polar opposite? What a bizarre statement. And I'm not taking this from the media but from the memoirs? and history books I've read (seeing as I'm moving there in about 8 months I thought it right I get a decent grasp of Irish history you see). You keep talking like you're disagreeing with me whilst bolstering my assertion every time. Indeed the channels during the hunger strikes had nothing to do with peace negotiations, and yes the results of this ossified government intransigence whilst giving the hardliners a free hand in the IRA, as well as massive popular support. This ushered in the a new period of conflict which the IRA thought they could win, by which I mean break the resolve and the ability of the UK government to continue to fight, as the IRA of the previous generation had managed in the struggle for independence. This failed and a stalemate ensued during which much of the IRA infrastructure was compromised by informants and the UK took tiny steps towards a dirty war? (notably leaking of names to paramilitaries and the use of special forces) which hampered but failed ultimately to impede the IRA's ability to conduct its operations. As horrible as the conflict was it did convince the likes of Adams and McGuiness that a negotiated political settlement was the only realistic goal. These were the channels, begun in the mid-late eighties that I referred to that became unofficially official in 1990, and revealed to the world in 1993 as a precursor to the round table (well round often seperate tables, but baby steps) talks that gave rise to the good friday agreement. Hence my original (rather shorter) point that sometimes you need a bit of war war before you can have meaningful jaw jaw. Sorry to have to spell it out but you seem to be labouring under two misapprehensions, 1) that I seem to be taking the side of the UK gov't and 2) I don't know what I'm talking about. ? also my best mate from when I was 4, eventually my best man was a Derry boy, his dad at school with Martin McGuiness. We used to get very excited every time he came back from visiting family with trophy rubber bullets and the like, and I've argued politics with his dad since more times than I can remember ? what naive times now that 'targetted assasination'? barely raises an eyebrow and Obama's 'drone programme'? practially passes without comment any more. ? murder by any other name edited to say "wibble"

aww bless

Does noone do trust these days? You've blown my mole, they'll hunt them down like the dog they are now!!!

SJ introduced me to the wonderful King of Kong, any interlopers clicking on this post please go and see it, it's basically Spinal Tap for real. Anyway, here are some others apparently worth seeing http://geekdad.com/2013/04/4-must-see-geekumentaries/

Fantastic (if slightly tongue-in-cheek) article on the current state of GBSSR. http://potlatch.typepad.com/weblog/2013/04/brezhnev-capitalism.html also linked to because it's the sort of thing that's guaranteed to wind Huguenot up ;) Though he does commit the cardianl sin of using trope=motif rather than trope=metaphor, but that's probably one for the irrational hatreds thread.....

What part of "effectively stalemated" somehow differs from "It could ahve[sic] gone on forever"? The IRA had been putting feelers out to the security services for negotiations from the mid eighties onwards, but it was Maggie who pooh poohed them with her legendary 'convictions'. When Major came along he was keen for a new approach from the off and gave the greenlight for the security services to begin talks (metatalks really, ie talks to begin talks); the city bombings were done to strengthen a negotiating position not force anyone to the table. I may be many annoying or unsavoury things MM, but brainwashed or spoon-fed isn't one of them.. -- edit -- A bit of digging and I'm mistaken, it wasn't Major on coming in to office, it was actually Thatch herself prior to leaving!!! http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/oct/16/northernireland.thatcher It seems just like to many other things, she saw too much through the lens of the cold war, and indirectly ew may have Gorbachev to thank for the first shoots of peace in NI. A weird world indeed.

I did revisit some old xbox games on the 360, like thief, but yeah, it's not a crunch thing for me. It's more that when I was packing skyrim up I was having to admit to myself that I'll probably be plugging a 720 (or whatever it'll be called) into the new house and I'll never get round to finishing the main quest (and I wasn't that far off, just don't have the time with two little ones around). *sighs*

Just read today that new x-box won't play 360 discs, which weirdly I was wondering as I was packing games away for the move to Ireland this weekend. On a non gaming matter, but geeky, so sort of right placeish If anyone has ever thought of themselves as a bit pycurious here are loads of free ebooks for total beginner to programming to intermediate http://www.leettips.org/2013/02/top-10-free-python-pdf-ebooks-download.html

yeah yeah, clowns, shutup pibs.

"A Nation that is Divided is Weak and can easily be Defeated." Appropriately the corollary to this is effectively the core belief underpinning fascism. I find it difficult to believe someone is making the case that the most divisive character in modern british politics was somehow a unifying force. Jesus, she left her own party shattered, which even 20 years on has barely managed to paper over the cracks.

"Thatchers failed position of resolute intransigence (unwittingly) paved the way for Major" Was the point I was going to make. Wars sometimes they have to be fought before they can end. Her intransigence effectively stalemated the IRA who thought they could win the war (equally she was wrong in her analysis that they could be defeated). Sometimes a period of suffering is necessary to create a more fecund environment where peace can take root. Anyway woody is right, god knows I'm bored of it dominating the mainstream news, can we get back to clowns please.

I read tea leaves.

It's from the people who brought us Terroir and Brawn, so jolly exciting. G&Bs demise was sad, I think their troubles took their toll over the years and the final incarnation got the focus all wrong.

I've read the Pinochet friendship and apartheid support a number of times on Facebook et al today. Both wrong. Her policies may have nbeen misguided, she conflated the ANC with her own struggle with the IRA and also saw it within the context of the Cold War so was perhaps too sympathetic witht the powers that be in S Africa, but she was no fan of apartheid. Maybe her resistance of sanctions helped the regime last, but maybe it didn't given sanctions general failure to have achieved anything much as a coercive recourse in international politics. Of Pinochet, well I think she was great full for their covert support in the Falklands, remember even the US was pretty unhelpful in that conflict. People can't have it both ways, they can't criticise her for saying she appreciated what Pinochet did and say she was great because of her resoluteness and leadership in the Falklands conflict. There's much controversy about her, but it strikes me these are red herrings.

Oh Lawrence Lawrence Lawrence, you can't help yourself can you.

I'm pretty sure he was an elected politician, he wasn't an elected prime minister in the sense we tend to go about it today. Given the choice of course after the war he was booted out by the public.

Exactly. In fact there is a sort of poignancy in woodrot's linky. One thing you have to say about her time, even we young folk were politically engaged, we cared even if in reality she offended our parents' liberal sensibilities* whilst they did quite well out of it all thank you very much. The current lot are savaging the post war legacy and raise barely a murmer. Plus I bet all those tweeters can name every xfactor conterstant for the past five years running...or somesuch. *I can but speak for myself and my peers in 80s suburban east anglia.