reeko

Check out the new forest. We stayed in daisy bank, absolutely gorgeous and you can walk out into the forest (not sure what it woudl be like with a buggy). A little bit pricey, but the breakfast alone was worth it. You are also really close to the Isle of Wight, and Lymington also worth a visit. We went in Feb this year, our last day was just when the mega cold started, and it was blinking freezing! You miht struggle to find cottages for two nights midweek - best to contact the owners direct. http://www.bedandbreakfast-newforest.co.uk/

Wow there oliver - you might want to reframe your question, How about "Really sorry to hear about your experience Laura. Can you tell us a bit more about what happened, so we can watch out for strange behaviour?" Can you see the difference? Laura, hope you are OK. I have a a few close shaves myself and it is always unsettling for a while. Sounds like you had your wits about you though.

LondonMix Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yuuna Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I think that the incidence of placenta placebo > > effect likely exists. That's how I tend to view > > any perceived/reported benefits of eating > > placenta, especially in capsule form. If people > > are open to believing these capsules will have > a > > positive benefit and they do; is that bad? \ > > > Well as long as they understand that it might be > harmful to specific groups or under specific > circumstances. Doing something for a potential > placebo affect without a clear understanding of > the potential risks is of course everyone's choice > but I can't say that I think its a choice with no > potential downside... And don't forget the people profiteering from selling people unproven 'therapies'

I am so so sorry annabel. Blaming and finger pointing are just not appropriate when so many people have lost their lives, no matter what the circumstances were. I can't begin to fathom how you must be feeling. My thoughts are with you.

Placebo placenta does have a pleasing ring to it

I think I am with you on this one Kes, and something that is often forgotten, trials don't just prove benefit - or not - they also highlight harms. It is often quite tempting to assume something natural is not harmful, but there are multiple cases in cancer research where 'natural' products have been demonstrated through trials to be harmful to patient outcomes, this includes taking excess of some vitamins! St John's wort is another great example where trials which originally set out with a hypothesis of potential benefit, showed just how damaging it can be - hence its withdrawal as an over the counter supplement in this country. There are many areas in my life where I would not take an evidence based approach (e.g. I bought my phone cos it looked pretty, I bought my flat because I had a gut feeling I would be happy there) - healthcare is just not one of those areas. For me, though far from perfect, the evidence based approach is the most effective way to avoid harm and exploitation by quacks and well meaning but misguided people. But as you say each to their own, and I suspect my experience makes me more critical than most when it comes to assessing healthcare claims.

I think it is all down to definitions. To me to say a claim is valid, it would have to be validated. The accepted method of validation for medical claims is testing by randomised controlled trials. Without a well designed study any claim, no matter how sensible or outlandish, could potentially be valid. To avoid confusion and potential exploitation of vulnerable patients it would seem to me very prudent to describe only claims of benefit that have been proven in a trial setting as valid.

Tee hee hee

Hi Greenwater, indeed each to their own - as long as the NHS is not expected to introduce and pay for treatments and procedures for which there is no evidence of benefit and lack of harm. It is also worth noting that people who have suffered, like it sounds you have, may be particularly vulnerable to being ripped off by misleading sales pitches and over-blown anecdotal claims. I work in cancer and the number of snake oil sales men out there is shocking. I have met several of them, and they are incredibly plausible. Some may believe what they claim but others are clearly only in it for profit and will say and do whatever they can to get vulnerable cancer patients to part with their cash. Some patients can afford it, but many cannot and their families end up paying the cost, sometimes tens of thousands of pounds. I really hope you manage to avoid PND next time round, but as well as placenta capsules I would encourage you to look at the proven treatments and techniques to help manage depression (I am guessing you already have). I have no experience of PND, but I know exercise has proven to help in managing 'regular' depression - it is less convenient than a pill, especially with a new born, but at least there is proof it works. All the best reeko

Great post london mix. There are no randomised controlled studies looking at the effects (benefits or harms) of consumption of placenta post birth. Any of the proposed 'benefits' are at best anecdotal and at worst misleading. Silly woman - the lack of this evidence is precisely why this practice lacks validity. It may be effective, but there is no proof, therefore any claims of benefit cannot be valid when trying to promote this practice or, more importantly, sell the services associated with it. Laura McDora, you say that "cooking doea not kill off the nutrients" Hormones and growth factors are proteins or peptides. Proteins tend to denature in an acidic environment causing them to become inactive. The Ph of stomach acid is between 1-2. Is there any evidence that the hormones and growth factors remain active post being cooked, dessicated, encapsulated and put through the human digestive system? There are many other practices in maternal and foetal health where there is evidence of benefit yet they are not available on the NHS (e.g. blood test instead of scans for detection of chromosomal abnormalities http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12160618). There are also huge variations up and down the coutnry in the adoption of NICE guidelines. If passionate about maternal and foetal healthcare, I would start here long before chowing down on placenta.

The lady makes some very good points and makes them well (although it could be pointed out, this is a show about buns not a statement on the nation). Still wouldn't fancy going for a pint with her.

Felt a bit sorry for ruby in the end. I think she was genuine, but unfortunately, genuinely annoying.

Yeaaah go team Frances. Was surprised at how shit the other two looked.

I am sorry, but I think I may be allergic to her. every time I see her smug face I get irrationally irritated. She reminds me of the girl that would sit up the front in class knowing the answer to all the questions. I hope her sponge sinks and her souffle flops. I am on team Frances, I think she has been given a tough ride.

Amen to that Jimbo

Oh - you are back I thought you had signed off, something about your work here being done? You have clearly out bored Lady D a pretty big feat, you won, give yourself a big pat on the back now move on

He has outdone himself tonight. Sprawled all over the lounge.

I didn't think it could be done, but a Fish I think you may have just about managed to bore me more than Lady D on this topic. I wonder could admin install a voting button so that forum users could terminate threads (or at least have the relegated to the drawing room out of harms way)?

*Bob* how dare you call Jeremy a weed of doom. He has been most helpful.

Cheers Red Devil, I think this is one of those rare occassions that I will fork out for professional advice instead of simplying determining my whole course of action based on recommendations from the forum - a suprisingly successful formula. Whilst I may be equipped with the mammaries, I don't have the appetite for a big building project right now. Reeks

No I think what kk meant was the deposit is debt as well as the mortgage, so even if I had a 20% deposit, it is all still money owed to the bank.

That is also an option. my preference is to stay put, but no extension means that is off the cards as a long term solution. Hearing you loud and clear about taking on too much debt, I am pretty risk averse in that department so will be doing my sums on a worse case scenario basis. Kk, I think you have highlighted the flaw in my cunning plan, essentially, the second mortgage would be 100%, which is a risk. cheers all

So if I managed to get a btl mortgage, then it is a goer? Staying not the best option, getting cramped and hopefully even more cramped in the future, hence the need for more space. cheers all.

I have a cunning plan, but I have a sneaky feeling there is a fatal flaw in it that I just can't see. A while ago I re mortgaged and at the same time released some equity in the flat. I had been hoping to use this for an extension, but it looks like planning will be refused.could I use the equity towards a deposit for a new gaff, and rent out my flat?

Bon3yard is a flagon of cider down, sitting beside me and will not be getting his oats for quite some time.