LondonMix

What bags of choice do children in a higher band have? Being in a higher band doesn't mean you are rich and it doesn't mean you could get into grammar school. Its just what it is. While I firmly believe that some schools manipulate their intake your assertion isn't entirely correct. Charter borders what you might call edgy areas and is distance based (though they don't implement it correctly in their current school). East Dulwich Boys is in an affluent catchment and uses banding. The new Charter is proposing distance and will pull from Camberwell, Peckham and Dulwich as a result. Walworth Academy is in an 'edgy' area and they are distance based. Lewisham implemented banding in all its secondaries and now has switched all of them to distance. Trying to ensure a comprehensive intake has its merits. I don't believe its always a tactic. There are arguments for different approaches.

It depends on a lot of factors. Good schools in affluent areas sometimes have a disproportionately large number of high achievers living near the school. A poor performing school might have the opposite. Banding will expand these schools intakes beyond their immediate neighbourhoods to fill each ability band. However, if your child is a high performer, going to distance only admission might increase their chance of getting in like for like (as before your child?s distance would have been judged in a band against the concentration of high performers right next to the school who might have applied for instance). So even if the total catchment shrinks students in certain ability bands further away from the school might have a better chance of getting a place once it switches to distance alone. It also depends if the banding was based on national achievement standards or proportioned based on those who applied (confusing called fair banding). Also, the area near the school might already have a good mix of abilities in which case it will make no difference at all. It really depends on the actual situation.

It would only help or disadvantage if a disproportionate amount of pupils of a particular ability live near the school. If that is the case, than the bands would push the catchment out further than distance alone. However, I don't have any reason to believe that's the case, so it very well could be entirely neutral!

I'm not actually against more flats per se.

Wow, the discussion has gotten a bit heated over the weekend! 1. No one knows what the catchment for the New Charter is going to be. It will depend on how well the school does, changing economic demographics concerning private schooling, and geographic dispersion of pupils. This is true of secondary school demand in general. 2. With that said, the new school is designed to meet the surge in primary school pupils entering secondary school in the South of Southwark helping to offset a decrease in average local catchments. Also, this is a much bigger school than the existing Charter. 3. Secondary school is very different from primary school?children in secondary school can be expected to travel within the borough. I say this because?. 4. Currently, there is no borough wide shortage of secondary school places in Southwark!?every child can attend school within the borough with a significant surplus of spaces left over. 2016 was the first year this was going to change but with the approval of the new Charter school there will be a couple hundred surplus places in Southwark until 2018. 5. Therefore, the problem is that some secondary schools in the borough are less popular than others. Only a few schools are responsible for 80% of the historic undersubscription generated by the surplus spaces. 6. Making sure that all our secondary schools are very good is key. That way no family will feel short changed. A nodal point doesn?t address this underlying issue which is at the heart of this debate even though no one is saying so explicitly. 7. So you know, the provision of the remaining circa 300 places needed in the from 2018 in Southwark is currently anticipated to be created via the expansion of the following existing schools: St Michaels Catholic College, City of London Academy, Bacon?s College and Kingsdale School following an architectural and cost analysis carried out in 2012 of all Southwark schools. These plans will be monitored against actual shortfalls?secondary state school demand is hard to predict and easy to overestimate?to ensure too many places are not created which would undermine the financial viability of existing undersubscribed schools. 8. If as some parents are articulating, a local high-quality co-ed secondary school is in high demand and desired by multiple communities who all participated in the campaign, then the only fair way to allocate places would be via a lottery within all of those areas. However, parents hate lotteries and I doubt anyone will actually push for this. Just to add, 85% of parents get one of their top 3 choices in Southwark and 93% get one of their top 6 (as of 2013/14). I personally suspect that once the current 200 place surplus is eliminated and more parents are allocated the few currently undersubscribed schools, those schools will naturally improve, eliminating a big part of the problem. All the information I?ve quoted can be found in March 18th, 2014 CD14 School Places Strategy Update, Cabinet Report. Just google it.

I live right in the centre of ED so it is almost impossible that a nodal point could be selected that would harm me unless it is in the north of Peckham Rye so I am really just trying to understand what the issue is that is driving the demand for a nodal point and the argument supporting it. No one knows what the size of the Charter School catchment will be as it depends on too many factors to accurately predict. Those who are simplistically using the current Charter's catchment are mistaken in that approach. The new Charter in ED is 50 percent larger than the current Charter and any overlap in their catchments like for like will expand the size of both school's final distance offer.

If the catchment of the new school is a mile, it will automatically cover all of Se22, Peckham Rye and most of Nunhead and there is no need for a nodal point. If the future catchment is closer the half a mile as some fear, then the catchment will still include parts though not all of these areas without a nodal point. To select a nodal point if the catchment is really tiny will exclude some of these neighbourhoods quoted above. Which should the nodal point exclude and why?

I wonder if Tallulah visited any London schools before concluding they were overrun with gangs and run like prisons!

I said that the new school should prevent catchments from shrinking, not that they hadn't shrunk vis-a-vis some point in history (however far you want to go back). I was responding to a very specific point made by someone else. Where do you think a nodal point should be located and why? No one can seem to answer that even though they are advocating for Charter to adopt this approach. If the fear is that the new Charter will have a very small catchment (1km) then it can't capture SE22, Peckham Rye,and Nunhead. Where exactly do you want to put the nodal point if that's the case?

Which local schools in Dulwich have metal detectors? Tallulahdoesthehula Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > We moved out three years ago now and I can > honestly say don't regret the decision at all. > > For me it wasn't the quality of the education on > London schools, it was the safety/ environment > side in terms of gangs / knives / guns etc. > > I didn't grow up in London myself and schools with > CCTV/ metal detectors / security akin to that in > the prison system was alien to me, when it felt > like the norm (as it did after a few years) I > questioned whether I wanted that to be the norm > for my kids. > > I also hated the lack of large school fields (or > even grass for that matter). > > I grew up in Kent and can honestly say I wasn't > aware of any drugs at my school and only one teen > pregnancy in my time there. The worse that people > got up to was smoking / alcohol but even then it > wasn't until > Much later. > > I don't remember being bored..... We had lots of > freedom and would go off on the train to places > when we reached 13 /14 - prior to that it was off > on your bike and round your mates house, playing > in fields / woods / swimming etc > > I don't think there is a right or wrong thing to > do, like every decision there are pros and cons. > It's working out what is important to you, what > your fears are etc and makkonh the best decision > for you / your family.

Perhaps the developer was hoping that the council wouldn't put two and two together... That would be a strange assumption though given how high profile it is, it seems rather daft.

When I counted the 240 new primary places, I was including Belham, the new Harris ED, the expansion of Ivydale etc. I will send the link to Southwark's pupil planning tonight so you can seen this is all factored in already regarding new primary pupils. Also, I still don?t understand the nodal point for a few reasons: 1. Any overlap between the two schools if they independently would have a catchment of 1km (putting all assumptions regarding preference, geographic distribution of secondary school pupils etc aside) will expand the furthest offer out both schools offer beyond 1 km. The impact of their proximity cannot be analysed in a vacuum. 2. 1km catchment for the new Charter School would include large parts of Peckham Rye and East Dulwich. However, if the catchment is that small, there isn?t actually a nodal point that would cover all of East Dulwich and all of Peckham Rye. 3. If the catchment is closer to 1.6km which is what Charter has previously indicated is their historic norm based on safe walking distance, then the current hospital location will cover all of SE22 and all of Peckham Rye etc. If the concern is that catchment of Charter ED will be small, where do those asking for a nodal point think it should go? Which areas do they want to exclude and on what basis?

It?s hard to know what they are up to. I was surprised that they think there is a market for such large ?penthouse? flats. I mean, flats above shops and on busy roads always trade for a pretty heavy discount so why they are pushing this as luxury resi doesn?t make sense to me. I guess they feel it will work in the market but I?d be surprised.

Yes, I am aware. What I don't understand why people in Peckham rye and SE22 feel they won't get in based on distance. Also I'm not sure where people think the nodal point should be and why.

Why should the catchments shrink dramatically? Locally circa 240 new primary school places have been created to deal with increased primary place demand in Dulwich, Peckahm, Nunhead. The new Charter school will admit 240 pupils exactly so should be able to satisfy the primary pupil surge. On AVERAGE, mathematically, the size of the catchment of local schools won?t change from what they are now. Obviously the size of each school?s catchment will be a factor of how popular it is and the exact geographical spread of secondary school pupils in the local area. If both Charter schools are equally as popular as each other (who knows) the corresponding mathematical result is that any overlap caused by their relative proximity will expand both of their catchments further East and West than would otherwise be the case. Again, I?m not sure why everyone is convinced a nodal point is needed and which local children they fell are unlikely to gain admission to the school without one. You can't really guarantee anything come what may. If Charter East Dulwich is wildly popular, parents with secondary school age students will cluster more densely around it distorting its average catchment size anyway. confusedbyitall Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Actually landsberger they have announced where > they will be permanently, we have always known > that for the first two years the site would be a > temporary one - wherever that is. > > The admissions criteria is only different in that > they intend to use as the crow flies, not > walking. > > The nodal point is the most important thing that > this community needs to know, as we all know that > in five or six years the catchment will shrink > substantially....that's why its important to know > what it currently is now on charter 1's site. > > If its 200meteres or 1km we then also have an idea > of how much overlapping there will be on the > jervis rd nodal.

Lots of children try to get into the Orpington Grammar schools from here. The Orpington Grammar schools (Newstead and St Olaves) are two of the best grammar / state schools in the country?Newstead I think ranks 5th or something like that). Dulwich is within the 9 mile radius for admissions so I wouldn?t say Grammar Schools are a reason to leave Dulwich and move to Kent. St Olaves is actually linked to the Dulwich Estate. Grammar schools admission is just based on test scores once you are in catchment so living closer doesn?t provide any advantage. Also, no one is guaranteed a place by living in Kent.

Offices have to have toilets firstmate. The fact that the offices include toilets isn't any kind of argument that they are intended to be flats. In fact, by including cubicle style toilets and a wheel chair accessible toilet, the plumbing is far more complicated than it would need to be for a conversion to residential use.

You guys are talking at cross purposes. EDHistory's jpeg attachment is of the 3rd floor level which is two large flats (as per the application). The first and second floors are offices in the application. Some are questioning if the developer intends to eventually turn those offices into flats. Others have (validly) pointed out that the space looks like genuine office space given there are toilet cubicles as part of the design (i.e. 2 bogs in cubicles plus one wheel chair accessible unit rather than the two bathrooms in the flats edhistory posted).

I know but that isn't an indication of Charter 2's catchment will be or how much overlap will exist between the two schools. It more complex than that.

Agreed.

In all the ways that truly matter to me (rape / homicide) London on a per capita basis is as safe as the English average. There probably isn?t anywhere you can live to shelter your kids from drugs, sex and drinking. If you like the countryside, then definitely move there but I wouldn?t ever just move there for kids!

When is LA cold and damp? San Francisco maybe but not LA...

Los Angeles. There are great museums are really terrific alternative theatre scene, lots of cheap indie art and performance events, great food, funky beaches and fun beaches and great parks and hills to climb. The traffic can be awful (same as London but you have to drive all the time so you feel it more). Also, huge swathes of the city are really ugly (American strip mall hideousness) but the nice pockets are really pretty and it?s a young city full of energy.

What element of Harris's admission policy do you believe violates the document you linked to? I haven't read through it so I am just hoping you can highlight what is causing your concern to save me some time! James Barber Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I say again - Southwark Council/Labour have zero > strategic contact with the Harris Federation. I've > spoken to Harris and they'd welcome such meetings. > They only started met Haberdasher's after I > organsied a meeting as an opposition councillor > about a possible new school. > > So landsberger I disagree. Southwark Council is > responsible for education but after the last two > governments has to excercise this over academies > using soft skills. But if you don't meet, and > Renata please don't confuse you popping nito the > harris Girls school as strstegic meeting, to talk > about strategic issues you don't get to use any > soft skills to influence people. > > And the new policy of this school isn't good for > our area in my opinion. > > Has anyone reviwed it against the government code > - > https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa > ds/attachment_data/file/389388/School_Admissions_C > ode_2014_-_19_Dec.pdf > > If it breaches this code we can appeal to the > Schools Adjudicator by 30 June.

I?m no apologist for Harris as most know but did anyone who attended their consultation meetings hear the rationale for the nodal point? I addition to it being circa halfway between the girls and boys schools, it could simply be a reflection of potential need / shortfall. For instance, once you are further East into Nunhead (like Ivydale) it appears you have a very decent shot at getting into Habs Hatcham and Pendergrast. They may have been trying to deal with the perceived shortfall in the East of Dulwich, particularly if there is no immediate shortfall in the East of Nunhead / Lewisham. I?d like to know before denouncing them for having a nodal point (which many parents are asking for as part of the new Charter School?s admission policy). Cynically, I imagine that they want to keep their admission more Dulwich focused in light of the new Charter school and this is one way to help ensure that. henryb Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It looks like the Shelbury Rd and Colyton junction > is roughly half way between the boys and girls > school by road. I wonder if that was the reason.