fabfor

@root. The vitriol I'll leave with you but I'll take awesome every time. I thank you for that.

And anyhow, I don't like the messenger either;but the message is quite clear.

And what does the fact that there are more than 10 (as stated) indicate about your scientific curiosity, EP?

How about an Awards Picnic in the Park? A transition from virtual(ish)to real community...

Just for the record, not one but 10+ scientific studies that prove consciousness can alter our material world: http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/03/08/10-scientific-studies-that-prove-consciousness-can-alter-our-physical-material-world/ I find the first one particularly shocking.

Which reminds me: Restraint in the use of the Asterisked Expletive - F*O. (Failed Outstandingly).

Help-Ma-Boab Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Pixie_Jem for this recent thread in the General > section. This one could have legs: > > http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5 > ,1310331 NJ New category: Thread With Most Legs.

I haven't been here long enough so I herewith tender my resignation from the awards judging panel. BTW, this idea's too big for the lounge, in my opinion. (Category: most narcissistic post - runner up).

he spent the next day walking around like a man > carrying two invisible pots of paint and grinning > like a chimp. What a post! Thanks D.1979 - and RichT wherever you be. Category: All time most humorous post - Winner!(?)

A bombshell from the Hacan clearskies site. Well, well, well... Does this mean that gatwick is now the favourite? Press Release : Heathrow Chief admits M4 would need to be diesel-free if 3rd Runway went ahead Press Release 21/4/14 for immediate use Heathrow Chief admits M4 would need to be diesel-free if 3rd Runway went ahead Heathrow Airport?s outgoing chief executive Colin Matthews has admitted that the M4 would need to be diesel-free if a 3rd runway was ever built at the airport. Matthews told the aviation specialists Flightglobal (1), that ?to fix air quality at Heathrow [you need to] replace the fleet of diesel engines coming down the M4 [motorway]?. It is the first time that a senior Heathrow official has been so frank about the air pollution problems the airport is facing. The European Union has made clear that its air pollution legal limits set in 2010 must be complied with by 2020 or member states face hefty fines. In the UK, Central London and Heathrow are the two big areas of concern. There are pockets around Heathrow which remain stubbornly above the legal limits. The problem is caused by both the aircraft and the heavy traffic on the nearby roads and motorways. John Stewart, chair of the campaign group HACAN, which opposes expansion of the airport, said, ?We commend Colin Matthews on his honesty but it simply act of faith for the airport to believe that air pollution limits will be within the legal limits by 2026, the date a 3rd runway would be expected to open, as the new runway would mean an extra 240,000 flights a year.? The Airports Commission, set up by the Government, is currently assessing the case for a 3rd runway at Heathrow and a second Gatwick runway. It will report in summer 2015 ENDS

Announcing the annual EDF POSTS awards. Humorous. Based on posts not persons. Categories: Sweetness; belligerence; sheer front; reason; humour; dedication; charity; meanness; most valuable post; world turned upside down post; etc. Nominations, Winners, runners up. Members or panel Voting? Donations for awards or mock Certificates of Pomposity? What do you think?

A taste of the battle raging nearer to Heathrow from Hacan Clearskies: HACAN Clearskies BLOG A work of art: the art of distortion Posted on April 14, 2014 14/4/14 by John Stewart It?s got ?em talking. And fuming. Back Heathrow?s latest news-sheet and questionnaire. I didn?t get one dropped through my door but many of our supporters did and they sent me copies. The newsletter is a work of art. The art of not quite telling it as it is. Take the front page ?Hillingdon Council want Thousands of Houses on Airport?. What message does that convey to you? The clear implication is that Hillingdon wants the airport to shut. They have never said that. It leader, Ray Puddiford, has merely said that, if an Estuary Airport opened and Heathrow had to close, there would be the opportunity for the land to be used for housing and new businesses. Back Heathrow turns that into ?Hillingdon Council Leader Ray Puddiford: Ungrateful ? Shutting down Heathrow represents a ?remarkable opportunity?.? The sleight of hand goes on. It quotes from the report commissioned by threeLondonboroughs which indicates that thousands of jobs are at risk if Heathrow were to close. It conveniently overlooks another key finding of the report that the impact of a second runway at Gatwick would have a ?negligible? impact on employment at Heathrow. And then there are ?local residents? who are quoted. Steve Ostrowski may live in Hillingdon but what we are not told is that he also works at the airport. And then there is Gary Dixon who says he?s ?lived near the airport for years.? Local Hillingdon people tell me his area is not impacted by planes. Not forgetting Shaun Brimacombe from Harlingon who asks ?If noise does affect them then why did they choose to live next to a major international airport?? Back Heathrow?s bosom buddies atHeathrowAirportknow full well that there are people distraught by aircraft noise living 20 miles from the airport. They didn?t ?choose to live next to a major international airport.? They don?t get a quote. Although we don?t share it, HACAN recognizes there is an argument to be made for the expansion ofHeathrowAirportbut this news-sheet does nothing to advance it. You can contact Back Heathrow at Premier House, 50-52 Cross Lances Rd, TW3 2AAor by email [email protected] or via their website: www.backheathrow.org Thinking of filling in the survey? Don?t risk it! You could be quoted out of context in their next news-sheet. Better to say nothing. Return an empty envelope. It?s Freepost!

The following is from the Hacan homepage. I wonder if this will be repeated here after the third and fourth runways... Protests Continue in Frankfurt What respectable residents get up in Frankfurt every Monday evening in the airport terminal. For their 94th protest in the terminal they destroyed a mock up of the hated 4th runway. Spectacular and entertaining video. http://bambuser.com/v/4473498 The 4th runway was opened in 2011. The new flight paths put in place to service it have generated weekly protests ever since with up to 5,000 residents occupying the terminal. The protests have succeeded in getting a ban on night flights.

healey Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Agree with El Pibe. Now that's a frivolous post if ever there was one. Come on EP, uncoil that whip!

OK. All clear now. My misunderstanding. Back to business as usual.... :-).

All quiet on the western front!! Seriously, EP, I find your "sneaking suspicion.... " statement a little intimidating - which, I'm sure, was not your intention?? For example, I came across a BBC news report summarising the noise study published in the BMJ last October. It's here:http://m.bbc.com/news/health-24432162 Now, I found that report a lot easier to read than the BMJ article and thought of posting it here. However, I immediately began to self-censor - what if my post was deemed frivolous? Would I be banned from the forum? Would the thread be killed? Etc... As stated, I'm sure it was not your intention to create such a draconian atmosphere so please do what you can to lighten up things a bit....

Found this on Hacan facebook page; from evening standard: MP Zac Goldsmith launches movie contest over Heathrow expansion Zac Goldsmith and Boris oppose 3rd runway plans Matthew Beard, Transport Editor A A A Monday 24 March 2014 Tory MP and environmental campaigner Zac Goldsmith today launched a film competition to highlight opposition to a third runway at Heathrow with ?10,000 as the first prize. In an escalation of the anti-expansion campaign, Goldsmith has also recruited celebrities to the cause with actor Hugh Grant and former Tory MP Giles Brandreth among the competition judges. Entrants to the competition will be asked to submit a short film to highlight opposition to a third runway. Shortlisted entries will be judged by the panel at a gala evening of 800 guests at the Richmond Theatre on 18 June with the prize money provided by Mr Goldsmith. The competition is called ?No Ifs, No Buts?, recalling David Cameron?s infamous pre-election pledge made in 2009 to an audience in Richmond not to allow a third runway to be built at Heathrow. The Government?s aviation commission has since shortlisted Heathrow and Gatwick as sites for a new runway and will make its recommendation after next year?s election. Mr Goldsmith said, ?The competition is open to absolutely everyone, and will be judged on the night by a high- profile panel, as well as the audience itself. Among the submissions, I?m looking for some really powerful messages that will be taken up on social and conventional media, and ram home the message that Heathrow expansion is not only the wrong solution for our economy, it is politically undeliverable. "A green light for Heathrow expansion is effectively a green light for a vast, foreign-owned and taxpayer-subsidised monopoly on one edge of our great city. It is astonishing that the idea is even in consideration, particularly given that freeing Gatwick from the BAA monopoly has worked wonders for the airport and its customers. "We should invest in improving London?s surface connections, maximising rather than suffocating competition between three main airports. The Chancellor needs to stop being led by the lobby groups and think the issue through himself.? John Stewart of anti-expansion group HACAN said: ?Many people are hugely disappointed that David Cameron has gone back on his promise not to build a new runway at Heathrow. This ?No ifs; no buts? competition can highlight that.? Mr Goldsmith, MP for Richmond Park and North Kingston, has been a thorn in the Tories? side over Heathrow and has threatened to leave the party if they back a third runway. In a council-run poll last May, almost three quarters of residents of Richmond, Hillingdon and Hounslow - some 100,000 respondents - opposed a third runway, However Heathrow said the survey was based on an outdated run proposal. The closing date for video entries is 1st June. More details about the competition can be found at www.no-ifs-no-buts.com

HACAN Clearskies BLOG Doing nothing about noise at Heathrow is not an option Posted on March 24, 2014 24/4/14 by John Stewart I?ve written about it before. But last week brought it home to me once again. Doing nothing about noise at Heathrow is not an option. On Tuesday evening I chaired a meeting in Brockley, 20 miles from Heathrow in South East London. As I stood outside the church hall before the meeting started, I could hear a plane one every two minutes or so, turning to join its final approach path to Heathrow. I saw the same manoeuvre taking place on the screen last Friday when I visited the headquarters of NATS (National Air Traffic Control) in Swanwick and. NATS are impressive. They run an effective, efficient organisation that, it must be said, has improved significantly since they were privatized. But the question I was left pondering was whether they are being asked to do the impossible at Heathrow. They are required to mange safely and efficiently over 1300 planes landing and taking off each day but also are keen to assist residents under the flight paths. Which brings me back to Brockley. As I sat with the air traffic controller watching his blank screen light up with planes approaching Heathrow, nowhere shone more brightly than the dazzling white line of aircraft on their final approach path, many having joined 20 miles from the airport. More than one million people live within those 20 miles. Around a third of those ? the people living closer to the airport inWest London? get a half day?s break from the noise when the planes change runways at 3pm. The rest, like Brockley, get no relief. And make no mistake the noise can be a real problem in those areas further from Heathrow. A report published by the respected acoustics form Bureau Veritas in 2007 found that in many of these areas ?aircraft noise dominated the local environment.? http://www.hacan.org.uk/resources/reports/st0699.pdf http://www.hacan.org.uk/resources/reports/hacan.flight.paths.study.pdf (summary). Doing nothing cannot be an option. But my visit to NATS showed me that doing something is difficult. Quieter planes on their own won?t do it because the number of aircraft is the big problem. Steeper descent approaches would help somewhat. Predicable respite periods can be managed before 6am when there are fewer planes but NATS would struggle to introduce them during the day when they need to land as many as 45 planes an hour. The most useful solution for ?the squeezed middle? ? those living some distance from the airport under the final approach path ? would be for planes to join the approach path much closer to Heathrow. The bright lights on the NATS? screens ? the planes ? would be shared around more equitably. The former Concorde pilot Jock Lowe, the man fronting the Heathrow Hub bid for a third runway, believes it can be done. NATS are not ruling it out as more of the precision technology becomes available. NATS are more hopeful of improving things more rapidly for residents under the take-off routes. There is more scope for giving respite. Aircraft also have an increasing ability to ascend ever more steeply. I didn?t ask NATS about the impact of a third runway at Heathrow. I didn?t really need to. If 480,000 flights a year severely restrict NATS room for manoeuvre, 740,000 would light up the air traffic controller?s screen with a brightness yet unseen. Wouldn?t they?

But why move the more active one? Admin, I request that we keep the other - if only to save us having to repeat the whole tortuous argument again, god forbid!

Sue Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > fazer71 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Ah the thread has been removed. > > > > xxxxx > > Maybe it's just been moved? Whole threads aren't > usually removed? I'm thoroughly confused. Which thread has been removed - surely not the most active one-Aircraft noise, have your say - where we've fought so hard for the right to be heard!?

wavyline girl Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > FYI > There are two threads on this subject, and people > may be missing out on valuable information which > may be found on the other strand. ----------------------------------------- Re: It's 4.30am and the heathrow flight path appears to be in use Posted by wavyline girl Yesterday, 08:47AM If anyone has any doubts about the level of air traffic, maybe they should come round now and look out my window. It has been constant since the early hours of the morning, one plane isn't out of sight before the next one comes over. The noise is continuous at peak periods. Fabfor,I have written to my local mp (Harriet Harman)about the issue. I can't find the email address you mention, so I was unable to send you a copy. ---------------------------------------------- Re: It's 4.30am and the heathrow flight path appears to be in use Posted by hpsaucey Yesterday, 09:49AM Had the same - been up since 5:30 (not because of planes just up early) but know they woke my eldest... Some really loud ones around six as I was sitting on the balcony - not good a plane spotting so can't say what they were). You'd certainly be raising your voice (not shouting quite) to have yourself heard by someone next to you)! I have a fairly clear skyline for abour 180 degrees of sky so can see them coming in just about constantly from the E/NE... We're east wide of Peckham Rye Common. I was interested in the other thread's thoughts about the variations within localities as perhaps a partial explanation for the widely varying 'experience' the noise they generate.. Where are you wavyline girl??? HP ----------------------------------------------- Re: It's 4.30am and the heathrow flight path appears to be in use Posted by jimmyraj Yesterday, 01:41PM @hpsaucey - we're near Copleston Road / Choumert Road and it's particularly noisy - mainly because it seems to be on the curve of where they bank into the Heathrow approach from the south and often seems to be when they're putting down the flaps to slow, so I assume that generates some of the extra noise over this area. ----------------------------------------------- Re: It's 4.30am and the heathrow flight path appears to be in use Posted by Sue Yesterday, 02:46PM wavyline girl Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If anyone has any doubts about the level of air > traffic, maybe they should come round now and look out my window. > It has been constant since the early hours of the > morning, one plane isn't out of sight before the > next one comes over. xxxxxxx We were in Horniman Gardens today between 5 and 6.15pm (dawn chorus walk) and at one point you could see about six planes in the sky at once in various places and at various heights, including very low (sad smiley). -------------?------------------------------- Re: It's 4.30am and the heathrow flight path appears to be in use Posted by fabfor Today, 10:01AM Hi guys, it's heartening to see that we share the same experience of this noise nuisance. Wouldn't it be better to have just one thread though? Since the other thread is more active, perhaps that should be the one? I'm not admin on here so these are just my thoughts. Either way, I'll try to copy your posts to the other active thread-"aircraft noise, have your say"; wish me luck..

Hi guys, it's heartening to see that we share the same experience of this noise nuisance. Wouldn't it be better to have just one thread though? Since the other thread is more active, perhaps that should be the one? I'm not admin on here so these are just my thoughts. Either way, I'll try to copy your posts to the other active thread-"aircraft noise, have your say"; wish me luck...

wavyline girl Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > A friend at work today showed me an "app" > detailing flights coming into Heathrow?you could > see them in a constant line over this area as they > headed for the South runway. Apparently this could > increase further, which will only make things > worse. > "Hip, hip hooray" I hear those idiots say, that > are attempting to trivialise people's concerns > about the noise &/pollution. > Yes, noise is subjective,but surely only up to a > certain point, and just because some people > aren't bothered , or affected does that make it > fair to say that everyone else shouldn't be. What > kind of "I'm alright Jack" crazy logic is that? > Take it from me,the noise has definitely got > worse. The number of flights coming in and out of > Heathrow have increased, and City airport is also > having an impact. > As regards solution?besides the obvious (putting > up the cost of air travel/investing in other > methods of transport)How about varying the landing > routes a little more to share out the burden? Well said. Now, this is a constructive post. It happens to be on my side of the argument (:-)) but it's not an attack on the person, it's not patronising/condescending (CBT, etc.), it doesn't promote a nonsensical viewpoint (protect the community from less noise), there's no hint of the negativity that characterises trollish activity and it's, well, constructive (repeated,yes).

"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]"

Thanks for the excellent report, fazer. :-).