Louisa

PokerTime Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Louisa....in an area where according to the last > census, the overwhelming majority of people are on > below average incomes, your comments are just > ludicrous. What a load of nonsense, I've heard it all now, no seriously I have!! We have a whole bunch of threads about middle class grocers and restaurants moving into the area, we have a market aimed at the middle classes, we have streets full of posh folk with prams and ironic beards- and you are seriously trying to tell me the vast majority of people are below the poverty line? Unreal. I think you need to take down LL and do a comparable trip to Camberwell. Louisa.

KK you damn well know I do. Read my posting history about a confrontation on Goose Green. I stand up for myself, not everyone else does. Louisa.

oh come on now jimbo, if people are making claims about being forced into the road they will be more than aware of the class type of the person hogging the narrow path. I know I can tell. I rarely come across working class parents locally these days, and as I said, my most common issue has been with yummies rarely with anyone else. Disproportionally the odds are stacked against the yummies cos they now outnumber the working class mothers with kids, but at the same time these people should be well educated and fully aware of manners or you'd like to think so? I often stand aside to let a mother and pram go by, of whatever class, but these are NOT the people I speak of, I speak of the nattering side by side loud posh people who just completely are in a world of their own and do not even acknowledge anyone else. Louisa.

PokerTime are you saying kids potentially causing injuries to themselves and other isn't a biggy? Wandering around the streets with strangers walking past? What a bizarre comment. Louisa.

XIX Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Louisa quite how you are qualified to assert that > these middle-class mums force people in to the > road to satisfy their ego, I do not know. > > A quite extraordinary claim. > > Ridiculous. XIX maybe because I see them doing it? Maybe because I myself have been forced off the path on numerous occasions? If it wasn't an ego booster then why else would they do it? I rarely have the same problems with others. Are you saying because I have an opinion which differs to yours and may I add is based on real life experience, I am somehow not qualified to reach a conclusion about these people? I think those defending these Yummies are on shaky ground here. Louisa.

Sorry quids- I accidentally misspelt a word I intended to have a 'w' in with a 'b'. Some would argue one and the same thing, I of course would never jump to such a conclusion. Louisa.

I was told the same Mustard, they must have extended their lease. Louisa.

Quids I'm not going to go over old ground again. But you know damn well how infuriating these people can be and it's not "cliche ridden nonsense" if it is actually happening. Are you seriously telling me you've never come across a gang of these prams or even just two walking side by side along a narrow street? They do genuinely not give a toss about forcing people into the road. Yes they have children, but manners cost bugger all and why should elderly or disabled people be forced into the dangerous roads to satisfy the ego of a wealthy bankers wife? Louisa.

A large number of middle-class mothers are painfully rude and insular on a daily basis along the streets of LL and NCR and other streets around here. Sneering at anyone who selflessly is forced into the road by a large group of them blocking the pathway nattering away to one another about house prices or the cost of organic humus. Makes my blood boil. And the bizarre thing is, people see this happening regularly around here and rarely if ever confront these people. I'm with James on this. Louisa.

Jeremy I agree. A shared confined space should stay free from the use of individualistic gratification. Eating on a bus is the height of bad manners and uncleanliness. Not to mention the wafting aroma of the kernels very "special" recipe. Makes me vomit at the thought. Louisa.

Oi wavyline girl it's my job to put the Clapham blow-ins in check, not yours, hands off! ;-) Louisa.

Peckhamrye Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I travel by public transport because I don't drive > because I can't afford a car. I travel everywhere > by public transport. I commute to and from Peckham > Rye Station most days to Rotherhithe, and shop > along Rye Lane, and feel I must live in a parallel > universe to people here. Why is everyone so > intolerant? So, you enjoy travelling to and from Peckham Rye station. Good for you. Not everyone does. I don't see why it is intolerant of a person to want a nice clean tidy station area and not have rowdy kids running up and down making a noise. Louisa.

Stick to a car. Public transport is vile. I can only imagine how awful it must be to rely purely on a bus or train. And as for walking out of a station after a long day at work to be greeted with the pungent smells and dirty streets of Peckham Rye station entrance- well... Needless to say, I totally feel for those of you with a gripe. Louisa.

Hair balls unruly kids and dark dingy smell alleyway out of the station. Lovely, just what we all want to be greeted with after a long day at work. No idea why anyone is complaining. Louisa.

Southwark are being really slow this with one. Consultation seems to be sluggish. Can councillor James give us any further insight into why Southwark are being so slow? Have you spoken to the planning department? Louisa.

I blame SJ for moving so far away. I think he's gutted he won't be ale to participate in the new cinema ;-) Louisa.

So by thia time next year we will have a Franco Manca, M&S Simply Food and a new Picturehouse Cinema. I'm considering staying now. Louisa.

You're telling me a street full of used chicken bones, dirty hair extensions, bags full of smelly rubbish and cars parking on double yellow lines blocking buses is 'progress'? Maybe to you, not to me. And no I won't stop banging on about it. Just as I won't stop banging on about the gentrification of zone two London, and the demise of the working class and creation of an 'underclass', forgotten about and shifted from location to location when it suits the middle classes to move in and buy up whole streets of housing. Louisa.

PokerTime. Yes, to an extent. It's about making the area useful for everyone. It's not us vs them in Peckham, if anything I'd say its more "us vs them" in ED than it is in Peckham. I am from a background where the house and the streets you live in are kept clean and tidy. That surely isn't a cultural thing is it? Everywhere should be clean and tidy. I know Peckham is unlikely to go back to what it was and that's how evolution works, and I also know the population is overwhelmingly not from the same background as me. Louisa.

Lady D exactly my point. Lazy posting. You think by making a huge assumption about my dislike of an area with stated and valid reasons, you can conclude I dislike the racial makeup of that area. Not true. And if that's the case, you assume only white people have an issue with Rye Lane, also not true. I also stated its not just about the choice of shops, it's the condition they are in too- and the streets. Others agree with me. But then as a lazy car user like myself I guess I can travel miles out of my way destroying the planet with fumes and hogging the road from every other user. Louisa.

As SJ said, I don't wish to turn the future of a high street into a race issue. Lady D, I've pointed out previously on this thread that is never my intention. I find you forcing the conversation in that direction with those comments lazy. If I wanted to be lazy I could bang on about your reasons for not responding to comments about your militant stance on cyclists and how they can do no wrong. I choose not too. Louisa.

LadyDeliah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Rye Lane caters for mainly non-white or non-middle > class customers. White and middle class ED > residents don't like it. > > So what? > > Go somewhere else to shop then. I'm white but never middle-class, (do NOT get me started on that one please). I live on the borders of SE15/22 but lived all my young years in Peckham and went to Bellenden Road School. Always lived around here- so why shouldn't it be aimed at me and people like me too like it always used to be? Already stated I don't want posh shops or sh@t shops exclusively but even I accept an area needs a mix JohnL got it just about right. PokerTime - I have to disagree again unfortunately. I remember when the first non-white families started moving into the area and Peckham in those days was still a close knit community. We all got on rather well (overall) and would do anything for each other. I don't know how you suddenly come to a conclusion white working class people have a big issue with ethnic diversity? We've lived alongside one another and gone to school together for decades now. Another rather vague and bizarre conclusion. You also assume only white working class people have an issue with Rye Lane, not true. My elderly neighbour who sadly is no longer with us (she lived next door to me since moving to London from Jamaica in the mid 1950s) also would make the point that she no longer felt comfortable with the retail choices on Rye Lane and the way in which it had become so dirty. She was a working class lady much the same as my family were, and I can give other examples of people not satisfied with that street. This is not an ethnic issue. Anyway, all of this is irrelevant right? Because let's face it, the white middle classes are moving into Peckham now, and THEY are the very people who you've already admitted have the will to change an area to suit their own cultural agenda. And evidence suggests they come to these poorer areas and rightly or wrongly DO that. It's not the white working classes who do it. And the artists and PeckhamVision and the Bellenden yummification etc will all add up to another middle England clone zone. So any poorer family from whatever background will no doubt be shifted into the social housing of the suburbs in the decades to come by government. Louisa.

SJ, you know my opinions on certain things, I've aired them numerous times on this forum. Rye Lane is probably one of the main non-ED specific gripes I raise most often! My paranoia about said tongue in cheek "Louisaism" isn't just about me, it's about an attack on anything which is against the popular grain. Lots of people, including you, do not disagree with everything I say on here and yet somehow I feel as though I have to back down or vigourously defend myself against people because certain phrases pop-up which I would be accused of being "paranoid" or "chip-on-shoulder" about. We all are stakeholders in our local high streets, we are all entitled to opinions about them. I don't feel I am being paranoid when I see provocative phrases on here suggesting my whole ideology on the outcome of Rye Lane is about the removal of the current established community in some sort of 'ethnic cleanse'. It is not about that all, I shouldn't even have to go down this route to explain myself, everyone here (appears) fairly intelligent and reasonable to a point, can we not have this debate without digging out the lowest common denominator? Louisa.

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > a > bunch of stand-still posters who want to ignore > the day-to-day use of a high street by it's > established community but at same time 'improve' > it according to their vague and inconsistent > grudges. > That's exactly the point. Why should I and others who I know be forced to ignore the day to day use of Rye Lane. I want to use it, I can't, it's in a poor condition and needs smart ending up with at least some of the shops I would use- and did when I was younger on that very street. I have no vague grudge KK please note that. I have a consistent grudge which I have sent numerous letters to the council about. This whole 'PeckhamVision' thing, I was hoping would remedy my concerns, but so far it seems to be aimed more at protecting the artists and creative communities rather than anyone else so will shall watch this space. Louisa.

There is a selective click on this forum, who when it suits accuse people like me of being secretly 'racist' because I hold a view about the ever so sacred Rye Lane. I've lived here all my life and I am entitled to an opinion about the streets I grew up on. KK terms like 'redneck' and 'honky' whether used in the general sense or to make a sarcastic point are still offensive and just drag an otherwise honest and open debate back down to the floor again. My comments about smells and the look of the place are not 'loaded' at all, and I see this whole thing as a way of attacking anyone who has an honest belief that a high street should accommodate the whole population and not leave some of us isolated and forced to travel miles out of our way to buy things. I want Rye Lane mixed use, above all else CLEAN streets which are hair and chicken bone free. No excuse for it. Louisa.