Louisa

Maybe that tomato pur?e paste is the answer to coolness right? After all, it turns cheese on toast into a pizza. Louisa.

Ah but titch juicy working class and continental is cool as you well know? It's only things like eels which are the spawn of the devil right? ;) Louisa.

Pizza IS cheese on toast! Lord give me strength! A bread based product with melted cheese on top! How are they not the same? Right I'm gonna blitz a tomato and spread it over a bit of bread grate on some cheese and grill it, hey presto we have a pizza! Louisa.

Yes it is pretentious if its used in a demeaning context to attack another type of food. A roll and ciabatta are both bread. A frittata quiche and omelette are all egg based flans. They all use the same basic ingredients and if you go out of your way to force feed someone your knowledge of a name then it's pretentious. Louisa.

What's pretentious about a pret-a-manger? It's a chain sandwich shop owned (I believe) by McDonald's? And it serves salad. Frittata itself isn't pretentious, but the context in which it was used on this thread was. Louisa.

titch juicy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > surely waitrose are stamping all over the > traditional local working class greengrocers and > corner newsagents? Surely all supermarkets are stamping over all independent business to some extent? That's just a fact of life, that's how the market works. That's not class related. Louisa.

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well it was sounding like she's been caning the > acid. Literally no pertinent points being raised, > just distraction. What does caning the acid mean? I have made some very pertinent point, they've been instantly dismissed by people on here because they do not want to talk about how food and class have merged into one. I cannot be accused of being classist when it comes to shops - I'd happily love to see Waitrose open a store around here, but unlike some I am more than happy to shop at Iceland too. Louisa.

RosieH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How is frittata (Italian word) any more > pretentious than omelette (french word)? > > They're made completely differently - it's like > calling a paella a pretentious risotto. > > Facile. Oh come off it RosieH, you know exactly how such terms can be patronising and pretentious. And the person who posted that comment was deliberately trying to be exactly that when using that comment in a completely unrelated context. Who goes home from work and says "ooh lets knock up a frittata for tea" - no one that's who! It's basically an omelette with a few added extras. Just as pizza and cheese on toast are pretty much the same thing minus the tomato base. Everything needs to be put into context. Louisa.

You can get a hotdog from a van on any number of trading/retail estates within a 20 minute walk from the centre of ED, and not just on a weekend either. My costing isn't plain wrong and I'm not talking about specific fast food stalls in specific locations here, I'm talking about a 'type' of stall which is aimed at people who wish to pay a fortune for something which is what it is. Dressing it up with fancy phrases or homemade sauces doesn't detract from the fact it's just a hotdog, it's just a burger. And KK this argument does need to be had. All we hear on this forum is a constant over hype of everything aimed at a specific group of people and their needs in the SE22 area. There are plenty of decent places to buy food, many of which rarely get a mention on this forum. People on this very thread have tried using pretentious phrases to describe omelettes for example, coffee, it's just plain annoying. Louisa.

RosieH Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ?4 for a hog roast, that fairly makes my day - > cheaper than a MaccerD's I bet you dot get fries and a drink with it , which for 4 quid will get you a meal deal in McD's. Louisa.

*Bob* I bet it's not as long as a 'street food' hotdog. Louisa.

KidKruger Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I still don't get how an enquiry about tasty > street food stalls has morphed into (at best) a > class-struggle monologue. > Are you seriously saying that working class people > cannot afford a hotdog or pork roast bun from the > market ?! > Is that because after buying the week's ciggies > and booze, the pot's empty ? > There's no class-struggle relevance to street food > or it's history. > The poorest people would never have eaten food > from a street stall or a shop if they could make > it, or something else, cheaper themselves. KidKruger, not just working class people, I'm surprised anyone can afford a pork bun or hotdog for between 6-12 quid! Burger and hotdog vans charge a lot less and it's the same thing. And yes class is important here, because these posh street vans only pop up to satisfy the needs of people who wish to be smug about paying a bomb for the same product you can get for half the price down the road! Louisa.

SJ once again you are not addressing my key point, something which has been at the centre of my entire EDF posting life according to you? And to be fair, relates back to my on-topic point about street food and class. So you address those points then I will address yours. Louisa.

SJ that's not entirely true as you well know. The reality is that the working class communities are gradually being pushed out of inner London into suburbia and being replaced by the cash rich investing in and 'gentrifying' a doughnut surrounding central London and the city. So that outdated view of class, which I'm often criticised for, is more polarised and apparent today than it ever was in the past. My prediction is in 20 years from now the only social housing will be limited to large estates on the periphery of the M25 (either side of it) and almost all of London will be a bland middle England enclave shutting out the 'real world' and living in a bubble. Louisa.

If its not trendy students or middle class yuppies it's bloody northerners - will any of London's traditions survive? Louisa.

Eat enough organic street food from a stall and you'll have so little vitamin D in your body you'll have more rickets than you can handle. Maybe next to organic we should have rickets in fancy writing. Louisa.

I'm not the biggest fan of humanity, so the more dogs who jump up at weak snobby timid middle class people the better. Especially if said dog is wet from a jump into a smelly pond. Magic right there. Just to clarify, my fears are NOT irrational and I DO believe everyone is out to get me. Louisa.

LD I'm sure a lot of the working class traditions of today would by many be considered revolting when sober. A kebab, a bucket of fried chicken, any number of other fast food outlets. And yet, millions continue to eat them despite the dubious quality of the produce. What one person considers to be disgusting another practically lives off of! All I'm saying is, the middle classes tend to support and hype up anything which suits them at a moment in time, and talk about it as though its something new and exciting. It isn't, it's been around for a long time before and probably after they have shown an interest. No one goes around talking positively about current or former working class traditions, chicken shops or pie n mash - and yet they were or are extremely popular and important to million of people on a lower income. LL has numerous chicken and kebab shops - they hardly ever get a mention on here. And yet, after a night out at a pub, many people would happily sneak in and grab a meal deal of some description. Louisa.

SJ I see you're still lapping up my offerings. Would you like to see the dessert menu sir? ;-) Louisa.

LadyDeliah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Louisa Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > KidKruger - you just said that street food is > > something all classes across the world partake > in. > > This may well be the case nowadays, but you > don't > > have to go back many years to realise that > street > > food was in most places very much the food of > the > > poorest in society. In London, street food has > > been around and sold from burger vans, fresh > fish > > stalls and markets for centuries. They've never > > been given elevated status by anyone outside of > > those working class communities because they've > > never been seen as fashionable. They are often > > immediately dismissed as poor quality by the > > trendier types. However, working class street > food > > consumed by such people whilst on holiday in > > Thailand, Brazil, Italy, France et al is > somehow > > given a magical seal of approval because it > suits > > them to do so. And then those ideas are > > transferred back here to the UK and are made > > somehow acceptable with the help of some > organic > > labelling and inflated prices - within said > > trendier classes. > > > > I was brought up in Peckham, within a very > working > > class household. I may no longer be considered > > part of that class in the traditional sense, but > I > > stick with many of the traditions I grew up > with > > such as pie n mash. Culturally in many ways I > am > > still very much working class. > > > > Louisa. > > > Who cares which class of people eat what food, so > long as it tastes good? > > By the way, when I first came to London in 1985, I > went into a pie and mash shop in Bermonsdsey I > think, without knowing anything about what they > were or their history etc. I was surprised about > how limited the menu was so settled for pie, mash > and some green gravy. > > The pie was revolting. The pastry was thick & > hard and inside was one big lump of congealed > dog-food-looking meat. The mash was lumpy and > they used a wooden spoon to scrape the mash onto > the side of the plate. I ate some because I'd > paid for it and was hungry, but it was foul and > I've never been back. > > It wasn't until much later that I found out that > this gruesome food was a cockney tradition. My > nan, who is originally from Bermondsey, came to > visit me a few years later and insisted on getting > jellied eels, but after my pie & mash experience, > I didn't have the bottle to try them. It was a dock workers dish which was plentiful and often not of the best quality. But some of the trendiest so called street foods of today have origins in poor quality meat/fish and poultry. So what exactly is your point? Just because you have grown up in a plentiful society where you can afford to be selective, many of these food traditions originated in a time when pickiness was not an option. It isn't just about nostalgia, it's about what foods people were brought up on. Half of the crap these so called foodies talk about wouldn't pass my mouth, but again it's about personal preference. I'm sick of hearing this blanket negative vibe regarding working class traditions. Yes a pie n mash shop could source organic ground Angus beef, but I reckon it wouldn't any longer be considered a pie n mash shop then, and it would lose its client base. Very critical of a tradition which has managed to survive over a hundred years in and around London arnt you? If its this great failure serving up awful quality food how does it survive? And yet some other so called 'fresh foodie trendy' whatever you want to call them places are around for a couple of years and then disappear. Odd isnt it? Louisa.

A pasty only has to be made in Cornwall if it carries the pre-fix "Cornish" - so technically a baker can make an identical product and call it an East Dulwich Pasty. Louisa.

I hate hot weather. Louisa.

Talking of street food, does anyone know of a decent fresh Cornish pasty outlet locally? And im not talking about one of those part baked train station chain shops which dish them out. Just found this interesting tweet regarding the origin of a pasty Louisa.

Yum. Louisa.

I think out of town refers more specifically to the type of retail unit it may attract, rather than its location. Louisa.