taper

Which parts of Nunhead Cemetery do you wish had been re-used? I think most local people like it as it is.

Fervid is a lovely word. Perhaps you could set up a pressure group: Screw Wilderness At Nunhead Cemetery? Or SWANC.

I think DH supporters would be happy with any solution that would secure financially the club and ideally leave it fan-owned. London is littered with clubs that have just disappeared. Fisher of course is the most relevant example given its past ownership and where that led.

I don't think the results of the poll have been published yet. And the DHST is reserving its position at the moment.

This is all so much not the point. Mere tactics from SSW; utterly irrelevant to most of us.

Lewis's behaviour towards Sue and the Goose is Out is appalling. I've met him, and liked him. But he should stop and apologise. The issue at hand here is clearly finely balanced between the various views. Mine are based on living near the cemetery and enjoying and appreciating the beauty of the wooded area and the old graves. Equally, the power of the case for being buried near to where you live is a strong one. I'd quite like to be buried there when I snuff it. But I wouldn't want that to be at the expense of the older wooded area. The compromise is clearly there to be had. But the loudest voices unfortunately, and as is often so, are at either end of the spectrum. Southwark should consult more on the detail.

There are plenty of us who have nothing to do with SSW who are very uneasy about what is happening in COC. It is easy to point out the folly of SSW's arguments. But leaving it up to Southwark risks giving them free reign to damage elements of the cemetery that should be preserved and managed. This thread was set up to take the discussion away from SSW.

The math doesn't quite work I'm afraid.

Thanks. Very useful. I note: "Development that involves the loss of MOL in return for the creation of new open space elsewhere will not be considered appropriate." So may quid pro quo point earlier doesn't hold "Appropriate development should be limited to small scale structures to support outdoor open space uses and minimise any adverse impact on the openness of MOL" So on my reading a stadium could be appropriate. It seems to me the big issue isn't building on the astro-turf bit of the MOL so much as developing and building on the current football pitch.

Camberwell New Cemetery in the main I'd suggest. But the long term solution is burials outside of Southwark and inner London.

So the issue isn't public use, it's the visual utility of Greendale and the question of over-development? That's a fair enough point, but it's good to be clear what the primary purpose of MOL is.

nxjen Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It's not full if more burial space can be created. > What are your parameters for describing it as > full? London is full of old graveyards, now used for other purposes. St Giles in Camberwell for instance. More burial space could be created in Nunhead Cemetery if some of the old graves were used again or mounded over. But a decision was taken at some stage presumably that the public good was better served otherwise. That is the issue with COC. It can only be used for a significant number of future burials if what is there now is very significantly altered. The question is whether this in the public interest. Southwark have concluded it is. I don't agree, on the scale currently intended.

Straw man. Intended purpose is not in doubt, not is current. The issue is about future purpose. So should COC be developed in the way intended? I don't think it should. It's full

Not sure what you mean by "Nope." Does this mean they won't be flattening the wooded area? Intended purpose isn't a strong argument is it? London is full of graveyards that have become full and are no longer used for burials. The question here is whether there's anything worth preserving in COC as it stands. I say there is.

What's the likelihood of Southwark taking this approach to the more densely wooded ares of the cemetery? Area Z looks like it's been napalmed!

I'm not sure what his point is. I understand Greendale is owned by Southwark, but currently leased to the club (for 15 years, not sure when this runs out). Formally, I don't think there's any right to public access, although it is accessible via gaps in the fence at various points. It's an odd and anachronistic situation, which requires a solution.

edhistory Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Excellent work. > > We now have a benchmark against which we can judge > the accuracy of any plans the Hadley group utter. > > Will the authorised people within Southwark > Council agree to the enclosure of MOL and transfer > of ownership of the land to a foreign property > development company? > > John K An awful lot of Southwark's MOL is enclosed. Nunhead Reservoir, Dulwich College Playing fields, Honor Oak Allotments. MOL designation does not mean open to the public.

Cause? I have no cause.

The ground as currently built is an albatross around the club's neck. The bar, gym and squash courts in particular. The club very nearly went bust a few years ago because it couldn't pay its energy bill. It's more secure now. But a scenario where the club is fan owned and occupies a more modern and sustainable ground is very attractive to fans.

Well COC won't be very restful for the dead or the living if the current development goes ahead.

Cemeteries get full and COC is very nearly full, unless it is hugely modified, to the detriment of its visual amenity and ecology. If you live near the cemetery, and use it as a public space, this is a big issue. We need new cemeteries and should avoid butchering old ones.

That looks like quite a bit to me. But hard to tell. Perhaps there's some quid pro quo here after all. Isn't the big issue here over-development and the impact that will have on traffic etc? I've heard very little about that. Greendale seems to be a bit of a side show to me given that the large majority of the stadium's footprint appears to be on a well developed, rarely used and unlovely bit of Greendale.

"The comparison with Nunhead Cemetery is inappropriate as there are very few burials taking place there now. Southwark's plans for Camberwell New and Old Cemeteries is to keep them as operational cemeteries." It is very appropriate. My view is that COC should be wound down as an active cemetery. CNC I'm less concerned about, subject to the border with OTH being dealt with sympathetically. And this does not mean letting COC become overgrown. The older areas, where woods are becoming established, should be managed in the same way Nunhead or Abney Park cemetery in Stoke Newington are. The local burial issue is fair enough to a point. But that point isn't where it means destroying old elements of a cemetery that have become of value beyond their original purpose. Sooner or later, the solution will be to develop large cemeteries where land is cheaper and more plentiful. In my home town, I don't think any of my relatives are buried within ten miles of where they lived. And land is far cheaper there.

Fruityloops Agree entirely.

EDHistory Is it right that Dulwich Hamlet once played on Greendale, prior to moving to the site of the current stadium? I wonder too whether the old training pitch (where Sainsbury's now sits) was ever MOL?