titch juicy

No, they don't. Education is the answer, not knee jerk hysteria. Read that professional advice from TFL, perhaps share it round the cycling community and do something constructive to help save lives on the roads.

For those cyclists on here too lazy to click on the TFL link- here is their advice. Heed it, it's more likely to save your life than anything else. "We want cyclists to stay safe when cycling near large vehicles, especially lorries. The safety advice is simple, 'stay safe, stay back'. Lorries have significant areas around them where cyclists are difficult to see by the driver. Our aim is to reduce the number of cycling casualties caused by cyclist and HGV collisions. The 'stay safe, stay back' advice applies to cyclists when cycling near to a moving lorry or approaching any stationary Heavy Goods Vehicle (HGV) on the road, at junctions, traffic lights or in slow moving traffic. It's important to get into a position where the lorry driver can see you. Follow our tips below to find out how to protect yourself. Safety tips Cycle sensibly and assertively to help yourself stay safe, especially at traffic lights and junctions. Recognise that lorry drivers may not be able to see you Never cycle up the left side of a lorry stopped at a junction Look out for lorries turning left from beside or behind you Don't stop too close to the front of a stopped lorry and stay away from the lorry's front near side. If a lorry comes up behind you, move forward enough to ensure you are in the driver's field of vision Take up a visible position at lights or advanced stop lines: three metres out in front and not by the left kerb or very close to the lorry Behind a lorry is often the safest place to be. When you need to overtake a large lorry, do so on the right-hand side, so that the driver can see you Be aware The areas of risk can be the full length of the lorry, with the driver unable to see anyone cycling beside them on the left. Both new and experienced cyclists have been killed in collisions with lorries. This often happens when a lorry turns left, hitting a cyclist on the nearside, or when cyclists stop too close to the front of a stopped lorry. Don't assume a large gap between lorry and kerb is safe. When turning left, large lorries always move over to the right before they swing sharply across to turn. Don't risk your life by trying to pass lorries on the left hand side when they are stopped at junctions or are about to turn. Exchanging Places events At Exchanging Places, you can climb into the cab of a lorry and watch for a police cyclist riding up the left side of the vehicle. You'll be surprised by just how little you can see from the driver's seat. You'll also learn more generally about how to cycle safely in London."

Driving lessons teach motorists that driving defensively is safe. Most motorists stick to this. Cyclists don't have lessons and most cyclists Drive aggressively making it more difficult for motorists to predict their actions and making driving more difficult (and antagonising pedestrians). I am a driver but don't own a car. About twice a year I hire one to go away and each time I notice how much more difficult it has become to drive in London because of incosiderate and aggressive cyclists.

henryb Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > titch juicy Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Your post is so full of inaccuracies and > emotional > > language that it renders it completely > redundant. > > > > > > How are the motorists breaking the law? If a > > cyclist rides up the inside of a long vehicle > > turning left with a blind spot, how is the > > motorist breaking the law? How can a lorry > driver > > avoid hitting something they can't see? > > If you can't see where you are going and you hit > something - you are driving without due care and > attention and you are breaking the law. It is very > likely you will get prosecuted. If you kill > someone - it will be your fault. Saying "I > couldn't see" - is NOT an excuse. > > I really don't understand why so many drivers > don't understand this. > > > But, now you mention it, the thousands of > cyclists that zoom theough red lights every day > are breaking the law. > > Yes but not as many as car drivers breaking the > speed limit, stopping in ASZs, over taking too > closely. And the big difference is when cyclists > do they are mostly putting themselves at danger > not other people. Find me a single example of a long vehicle driver successfully prosecuted for killing a cyclist simply for not seeing them in their blind spot. TFL have it right http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/14799.aspx

I cycle to and from work every day, and have done for more than 4 years, on busy central London streets and can honestly say that the vast majority of motorists are considerate to cyclists. I just wish I could say that the vast majority of cyclists were as considerate. They simply are not. My examples above were quite specific regarding cyclists being killed by cycling upmthe inside of vehicles turning left, I can't say for sure whether or not they were indicating to do so, but imagine they were as I very rarely see vehicles, particularly large ones that don't. This can be avoided by adding a not so precious ten seconds to your journey by waiting behind and letting the vehicle turn, eliminating the risk that they might not see you in their blind spot. It really is as simple as that. Oh, and stop jumping red lights. The overriding sense I get from being around other cyclists in London is that because they/we have the ability to get somewhere faster than a vehicle then every tiny time advantage HAS to be eked out all the time, in doing so. Regardless of whether it's law-abiding or safe. I would put it to any cyclist that says they don't see this, that they are lying or not paying enough attention themselves to what is going on around them.

Your post is so full of inaccuracies and emotional language that it renders it completely redundant. How are the motorists breaking the law? If a cyclist rides up the inside of a long vehicle turning left with a blind spot, how is the motorist breaking the law? How can a lorry driver avoid hitting something they can't see? I didn't mention anywhere about cyclists breaking the law- I said using common sense. But, now you mention it, the thousands of cyclists that zoom theough red lights every day are breaking the law. And while you may consider it 'safe' to do so, at the very least it is antagonising other road users and pedestrians and making our wider cause as cyclists more difficult. Cyclists NEED to stop putting ALL the blame on everyone else and start looking at their own behaviour.

I personally reckon at least 3/4 of cycling deaths could have been avoided if the cyclists use more common sense. How many drivers of long vehicles have been prosecuted for killing cyclists? Very few I'd guess, for good reason. ALL the blame and vitriol in the media for these incidents is directed towards the lorries and drivers and NONE to the careless cyclists. As a cyclist myself it drives me mad and it won't get any better until people stop starting knee-jerk, ill thought out threads like this. Take some responsibility for your own actions.

I agree completely with Silverfox. Her example illustrates just another example of a cyclist acting with a completely unjustified sense of entitlement. Just because we are able to move faster than other road traffic around London, it doesn't give us the right to do so in all circumstances. For god's sake- all it requires is a little patience and common sense.

If you don't ride up the inside of a long vehicle at a junction; if you sit behind for the extra ten seconds; you won't get killed by a long vehicle turning at a junction. Seems pretty simple to me. A man nearly got himself squashed on my cycle home yesterday- at the junction of tower bridge road and the little side road leading to grange road. The 78 bus was indicating left and just started to turn, but it didn't stop the cyclist zooming up his inside, having to slam on his own brakes and falling off on to the pavement. He was lucky. I feel so much for the drivers in these circumstances. It might be a simplistic view- but I don't want any more concessions made for cyclists, no more dedicated cycling space, no more duel purpose cycle tracks (like surrey canal- i would hate to be a pedestrian along there, the speed some cyclists go...it's only a matter of time before a kid get's hit) until more is done for the education of cyclists. All the focus of these campaigns seems to be about making it easier for cyclists, without any thought of educating the potential extra cyclists that will be encouraged to start. I think Sustrans, LCC and the like should put all the extra space for cyclists plans on hold and focus all their attention and funding into educating existing cyclists. Then give us more space.

Oh, and will be having Christmas and New Year in Germany for the second time, and hopefully a white Christmas for the second time too :0)

Yep, love christmas and the whole build up (i'm a big fan of Autumn and Winter) and tend to start getting excited every year around the start of September. I'm 39 years old in case anyone needs to know.

Camden it has to be- we took my gf's 15 year old cousin last year and she couldn't have been more wowed! The stables market these days is really quite impressive, even for a 39 yr old!

Dry Bar (now called 'Fizz' I think) on Sairee Beach, Koh Tao, Thailand. Beach bar built into a couple of big trees- cushions and seats on decking on the beach, holes dug into the sand with lanterns in for lighting, facing west for the most amazing sunsets, chilled music for sunset, party bar after dark. Best place i've ever been (2003 for a couple of months). Heard Koh Tao has become a full on party island now, but 10 years ago it was just a few diving schools and small bars, and parties in the hills. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dry+bar+sairee+beach&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=6_ANUtLyM8jG7Aaz9YG4Dg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1337&bih=619

Canavans Girl82 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Also, do people really think there will ever be > hipster hangouts actually on Rye Lane? I just > can't see it happening, the street just seems too > far gone :( I can't wait til plans are approved > and work begins on that grotty station forecourt.

Too hot or thank god we're having a summer? I have a foot in both camps. It's a cycling commuter's dream and I live next to a park; however, very difficult to get to sleep last night. Waterloo Station this evening http://twitpic.com/d2umo8/full

I would love to know the stats of how many of the cyclists killed on london roads WEREN'T involving a cyclist riding up the left had side of a large vehicle at a junction. Surely by now; between news coverage, anecdotes and big signs on the back of long vehicles, people realise that a lorry driver cannot see you in certain blind spots down that side. Yet, every day on my cycling commmute i see cyclists so desparate to make up another 10 seconds time, that they take their life into their own hands doing just that. It's madness on their part. MOST large vehicle drivers are as considerate as they can be towards cyclists. Cyclists must take repsonsibility for their own actions. Waiting 10 seconds behind a large vehicle is no inconvenience.

Django Django

Went to the preview night of the new run of The Ladykillers at the Vaudeville on saturday night. Was lots of fun. A few first night teething troubles(very well dealt with by the cast), but otherwise very good indeed. Was particularly impressed with John Gordon Sinclair.

Ha, yeah you cleverly manipulated by badly phrased question. You're cool and funny. Why do you think them abbreviating 'Glastonbury' to 'Glasto' makes them knobs?

maxxi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > titch juicy Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > maxxi Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > titch juicy Wrote: > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- > > > > get over the 'glasto' things folks.....it's > > > been > > > > referred to as glasto forever > > > > > > > > > only by knobs > > > > > > only by anyone that's been, for the past as > long > > as i can remember > > > > amazing how upset people can get by a > convenient > > abbreviation- says a lot more about the people > it > > upsets than the people that say/write it > > > Who's upset? You don't have to be upset to call a > knob a knob. There are a lot of them about and yes > - they have been going for years. Still knobs. An > observation. 's all. Why does it make them knobs?

maxxi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > titch juicy Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > get over the 'glasto' things folks.....it's > been > > referred to as glasto forever > > > only by knobs only by anyone that's been, for the past as long as i can remember amazing how upset people can get by a convenient abbreviation- says a lot more about the people it upsets than the people that say/write it

this site is very useful

get over the 'glasto' things folks.....it's been referred to as glasto forever

the nme's been a comic/gossip mag for the best part of ten years now since the libertines imploded they've been desperate to find another british 'scene' to claim for their own their twice yearly front cover claims of a new band being the saviours of british guitar music (see; Courteeners, Vaccines, Brother et al...all painfully average bands) is all a bit simpering and pathetic

Portishead sounding just brilliant