Tony.London Suburbs

Just realise what I have done Maxie!? Forgive Me!

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You seem to have a different friend, from a > different part of the world visiting you every > day, Tony! More than you realise Jeremy! At 11.30 AM Sierra Leonese friend/cleaning Woman arriving- though she is becoming a pain-in-the-ass as I frequently tell her. Supposed to have visited a friend last night who is 3rd Generation Janmaican/British. The Guy who is 2nd Generation Jamaican who I walk my 4 Westies with (he has 2 of the same breed). Jamaican Girlfriend coming back to stay from tonight to around Tuesday. Visiting another 2nd Generation Jamaican friend who still lives in Walworth (my birthplace) next Wednesday. Thats in the last few/next few days.. p.s It IS strange how NONE of them have noted any Racist tendencies from me though..ummm

Offer at Paddy Power has finished.

Ted Max Wrote: I know more about his life than my own, at the moment. B) I deserved that comment Ted. I won't comment on the rest as I'll be back in the mix but that comment was GENUINELY funny and I take the point M8.

Thanks very much for that reply Mockney. You have been re-instated as one of my Favourite Forumites.... Now where's that cad Huguenot.....

mockney piers Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes, join us. > Vote Liberal, the party of the sanctimonious, > hypocritical, affluent white middle class, > ignorant, naive, hippy, la la land masses. > Go on you know you want to!!! NOW you are talking M8! (Remember though you denied you were affluent or were you in such a, frankly, "indecent" haste to chastise me that you told a little porky pie...;-)) "Masses"...a small cloistered Minority by any criteria...

RUSH TO PADDY POWER NOW GUYS!! You can get 9/4 until 11.00 AM and lay "2.96" on Betfair....(Remember The Commission Factor in choosing your stakes). Good Luck!

mockney: Invisible Ink?...How did you edit that without it saying that you did?:) I wanted to reply before my Sierra Leonese friend arrives (don't worry she is coming from Thamesmead not Freetown!).. p.s I AM getting confused about you being "accused" of being "affluent" though because you ain't!! (I say you "ain't" because you refuted that by not giving me any points when I said you were, when I was Young and Judgemental..I only scored 1/5 and that was for correctly saying you receiving a decent Education!)..

???? ...A fellow Bookmaker where I work is Jewish and he invited me round to his neighbourhood where all his friends and neighbours are very affluent. So I visited his beautiful property in Finchley in an exclusve Cul-De-Sac where the House opposite was worth ?1.7 Million and has an Inddor Swimming Pool, dont-you-know. Over the road a Conducter here (one who usesa Baton not a ticket machine:))) a retired wealthy Dentist there.....you get the picture. I was subjected to his Wifes views on "Life"...she has enjoyed a life of luxury, never wanting for anything and never left the Home for work. It bore no relation at all to the everyday existence of 99% of Brits, and she wil NEVER be affected by anything she proposes. It was Utopia/Elysium/Nirvana all in one and I, politely, listened while munching her delicious salmon sandwiches. I laughed, "inwardly", it was surreal but amusing too.. I made a mental note to take her on a Tour of The Myatt Fields Estate (or indeed any large estate), leave her there for 5 years, and then see if her views have changed at all..:)

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don't think that anyone's losing their culture. > London is still 75%* white/british origin. I don't > feel as though I'm in a minority (despite having a > non-white partner, and neighbours from diverse > backgrounds). > > I admit that I do sometimes feel frustrated when > some people don't make more of an effort to > integrate with the local community, but the same > accusation could be made towards most British > ex-pats (or plenty of Brits at home to be > honest). > > * guesstimated figure UK whites a minority in London classrooms Dominic Hayes, Evening Standard 28.09.07 White British-born children are now the minority in many London schools, official figures showed today. In Tower Hamlets, 15 per cent of primary school pupils are classed as white British, while 63 per cent of their classmates come from Bangladeshi families. In Newham, just under 12 per cent of primary pupils are white British, while the figure in Brent's secondaries is seven per cent, compared with 36 per cent who are classed as Asian, and 24 per cent black. I thought I would take the trouble to research my statements about "White Minorities In parts of London" and I mentioned "Newham"...... 45 years ago Newham was 99% White/British and/or Jewish now only 12% of Schoolchilden in Newham are White, how much clearer does it have to be. This will lead to YET ANOTHER moving of the Goalposts to "What does it matter!??"...

Huguenot Wrote: On Brendan's point, I was making an observation on contributors who seem to think that 'immigrants' (erm... definitions??) should get the boot because they don't share the same taste in chicken. TLS: I AGREE Huguenot: Tell me who said they "should get the boot" and I'll have a sharp word with them. Name Names please as I have missed that, on this thread. H: This isn't self-determination: our immigrant population was invited to join us because we required them for labour or rewarded them for services to the country. A tiny number of immigrants have been invited to join us for humanitarian reasons. We 'self-determined' that we wanted them here. We democratically accepted freedom of employment and residence across the EU because it was manifestly in our own interests. None of these is a violation of the right for the British (or others) to self-determination, but having made those decisions we can't go back on them. These 'immigrants' are British now and they're not going to vote to be disenfranchised.> You can't vote to get them out. They're not houseboys. Self-determination (within limitations) is enshrined within " accrue rights and benefits according to their contributions", which encompasses concepts such as property rights, economic investment and return. TLS: Factually, all true. H: For self-determination to also include Europe for the Aryans, the Holy Land for whichever religious faction claims it next, or Newham for the whites is obscene. If everyone wanted the 'right to the retun' at the expense of the current residents, we'd have 6 billion people crammed round a campfire in the Rift Valley. You can't pick and choose what period in history you want to 'return' to. TLS: I've heard, ad nauseum, this point about "if you go back far enough in your genes" or "immigrants have always been here" and its disingenious. The truth is that for many hundreds of years the Profile of the people of this Country HAS been "White/British"..I think that is the FIRST time that I have said "White" on this thread. When I grew up near Peckham and 2 miles from Brixton, in the 1950's/1960's 99% of the people and children were White/British. Look at any Newsreel from The War Years onwards, any street scene of ordinary people from any footage from The 1950's, for example, and note that 99.9% of people on there, RANDOMLY, were White and presumably British. Yes, there had been a 250,000 Jewish Community in The East End and there WERE riots in South Shields in 1919 and there were some Black and Mixed Race People in Bristol/Cardiff/Liverpool as a result of the "evil" Slave Trade..but other than that one could go a week in Inner London and only see White/British faces so there has been a massive change, undeniably. Presumably Huguenot YOUR intrepretation of "my" use of "evil" will be "acceptable" Slave Trade. H: I mean, Mockney Piers would be able to have land in Germany, Spain and Antigua at the expense of the local population because he'd 'self-determined' to. Neither does self-determination include someone else paying for you to have a council house because your Dad fought in the war. TLS: A couple of questions for you Huguenot: 1/ Do you think it right that new arrivals into The UK should get "priority" over the indigenous population when it comes to allocation of any remaining Council accommodation? 2/ I realise the sources you use are, shall we say, "selective" but Panorama said last nght that there were 900,000 illegal UK Immigrants (400,000 in London alone), so what would you do about them? Frankly, 'little Englanders' must be living in cloud cuckoo land. Oh! The irony is physically hurting me! ( I know you can be very funny H. but STOP IT YOU JOKER!:)-D Now a general point Huguenot: You are just prooving time and time again what many people think (I've got an open mind personally) that the most eloquent, articulate posters are the least flexible intelligent. The two are, obviously, mutually exclusive, sometimes. Thread after thread when somebody carefully takes the time and trouble to explain exactly what they feel you put a JACKBOOT (how ironic!) thru' the heart of what they say and put YOUR OWN totally inaccurate "interpretation" on it. The reasons why you do this are not clear to me, although I have narrowed them down to: 1/ You being an "educated" fool. 2/ You having no concept whatsoever in the way MILLIONS of People, literally Millions live their life in The UK circa 2009. 3/ You are incredibly, incredibly LAZY in Debate, unbelievably so, in fact. Repeatedly I have seen posters "not dissimilar" to you on diffeent fora just basically, say or imply that someone is a "Racist" with all its EVIL implications because they do not fit in or share your "Utopian" ideals (and EXTRAORDINARILY YOU talk about people living in "CLOUD CUCKOO LAMD)..Sigh. 4/ Continuing the "Cloud Cuckoo Land" Theme you are on a massive Wind-Up (Unlikely but becoming slightly possible). 5/ You reading or intrepreting what YOU want to read or hope or expect to read from certain other peoples postings (what someone referred to in a Private PM about this thread as soneone "not being part ofa clique" here. 6/ You feel "safe" as a respected (my words despite some nonsense lately) established Poster to write anything however defammatory, however untrue, as it, inevitably, will NOT be you that is on the end of the browny stuff when it hits the fan. 7/ See (1).. 8/ You can write what you want "since I'm not there to suffer the consequences" of anything proposed by you. I PRAY that this thread does NOT get locked, please...(I'll certainly behave) but what you have written is absolutely OUTRAGEOUS. I GUARANTEE that if you ever return and live in London for any lengthy period that I will fraternise (through choice) is far, far more first/second/third(f/s/t) Generation "immigrants" than you will. I very doubt (though I will never know) if there is anyone reading or contributing to this Forum who chooses to, happily, mix so freely with (f/s/t) Generation immigrants, for our mutual benefit, than I do. It is completely farcical that I have for 35+ years now had friends from immigrant Families and yet get criticised by people who'se circle of friends includes "relatively" few people from immigrant Families themselves (my best M8 in The Law Courts in 1973 was Ugandan Asian (Rahman) and easily the closest person to me, from 1974, was Mahandrabi Dhabhi Patel "MD") who was my friend and mentor when I joined The NCB. My first Black Ladyfriends (for you are talking "Black" here, lets be crystal clear) were around 1979/80 and I have enjoyed the Company of so many over the decades (there are certainly 40/45 numbers still on my phone now of Black friends, Male and Female that I could still contact, provided they haven't changed numbers. with far more have been mutually lost in the last 30 years) so please Admin allow my response to survive and this thread to continue despite the sinister accusations made without foundation by H. On a wider note H. try going to a Turkish/Nigerian/Jamaican Community, or, indeed, most other Nationalities, in what "they" consider their Homeland and see how the overwhelming majority would feel if they knew they would be a fast-diminshing minority in the land of their Ancestors. I would LOVE you to air your views freely to them and await their individual and collective responses (I would pay the air-fare for the craic!)... and finally Esther...I will leave the best until last: ... "since I'm not there to suffer the consequences" of anything you propose about our Green and Pleasant Land. Truly Funny:)) BRAVO!!>:D<

Mikecg Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- Bert Weedon? do me a favour Tony he has the technical prowess of a rigourmortis ridden corpse. I wasn't being entirely serious Mike;-)

Fourth only to Bert Weedon and John Williams and Hank Marvin, who are all joint first...

citizenED Wrote: If you ever do a spot of traffic watching, look out for the single male drivers. Count them and be shocked. Most of these guys could be on the bus. There was a feature on TV today about how sexy Male Drivers were. On this particular show the Women were unanimous that Guys in the right car were...yeah! "shallow"...anywayz... Maybe over the last 35 years as am Adult Single Male I have been out with the wrong "several hundred" Women but the thought of taking 99% of them out for the evening/day by Public Transport is soooo ludicrous to not even be funny. Ladies tend to like a little comfort sometimes, and so do many Guys. If anyone thinks that 80% of Young Single Males are not going to want their own wheels, then they are sooo far removed from reality (even in London with its superior Public Transport).... "'ere Tracy/Wilhelmina/Gertrude/Jade, fancy a night out? .Meet you at The Bus Stop at 9.00 pm.." ABSOLUTELY PREPOSTEROUS!!....(Clue: There would not be many second dates...)

Oh! I forgot! 10/ Second the motion to please not succumb to the lure of "locking-down" Mr MM,

.......10 ideas if I was Mayor for a Day:. 1/ Remove bus lanes, Remove buses and taxis from the bus lane, so only cyclists can use it... 2/ Instruct the Met to arrest all 659 MPs on suspiscion of abusing public office for pecuniary gain. 3/ Conversely to (1) remove cyclists... 4/ Invest heavily in leisure centres and sports facilities. 5/ Make lycra compulsory so that fatties would think twice about going to the sweet-shop in daylight. 6/ Allocate every smack-addict the 10p they request for the bus fare home , and clean the pish and vomit from the 1 million newly vacant doorways. 7/ Decrease the time it takes between green men. 8/ Do something about prostitution depending on what Londoners want to do about it. 9/ Total lockdown for anyone who isn't me.....

I used to read philosophy, political theory, watch documentaries, listen to wise men and women distilling the sum of human achievements to try to gain a glimpse of what human life means. All that wasted time, I could have just listened to what Huguenot thinks..... If I Was Mayor Of London For A Day ? Well I'll be admirably succinct as I would hate to be party to this thread being locked off.......

I'm out now but all you have to do is live long enough to see the amusing side of life. 2 quick examples: 1/ Keef mentioned the Housing Lists...White Brits complained thru' the 1960's/1970's/1980's that they were being pushed further down the queue and "proirity" was given to those coming from Jamaica and other places. What did I hear on the radio 4/5 weeks ago? A Jamaican Woman bemoaning the fact that her Daughter culd not get a Council place due to all these East Europeans blah blah... 2/ Watts, California. Been reading on another Forum how Whites were eplaced by Black people in this area and the Whites complained that they lived "twenty to a room" (Cheers "bob":)))....move forward 30 years and now ?? Black people arecomplaining that they are becoming a minority in "their" area and they don't like it one bit and the quote was: "The Mexicans live 10 to a room" blah blah.... All you have to do is live long enough to see the cycle of life1 Here's to the next 50 years for ALL of us:)-D

Mark Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Tony, if you were the Mayor of London for a day > how would you change London? What policies would > you put in place to make it better? Mark, a friend is coming shortly so I'll answer later. In the interim I'd re-open all Kennedys Sausages Shops and bring as many Irish people over, as possible, to live here as I bleedin' luv 'em, thank the sweet stars:)

SeanMacGabhann Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > Tony feel free to comment away, but given that > London has always, and will always change before > all of our very eyes it still begs the question... > and?? and I preferred going down to my local High Street, The Walworth Road and buying Kennedys English Sausages, which had been established for over 100 years in South London. They have now closed due to "lack of demand" and I do NOT like it or what that tells me about Sarf Londres. So thats what this has really been about, the fact that I can't buy Kennedys Sausages in Peckham or Camberwell or Walworth or in varius other parts of South London anymore....:X

SeanMacGabhann Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > not rreeeeeaaly Tony > > You keep asking my how Irish people in GENERAL > would feel. And then I tell you that most Irish > people I know/observe are happy with the influx > and changes Fair enough but is this because the influx are not significantly changing the culture of the area? Do you think they would feel differently if only 21% of the schoolchildren, in say Dublin, were of a traditionally Irish background. Most Suburbanites are happy with the influx and changes in our area recently but if they became a "diminishing" minority they might have a different view, I feel. And you say you love the Irish - but as you point out that is YOUR view. It is clearly not a view shared by many of your compatriots not that long ago was it? Why would that be? Is it possible that for some people change is inherently a bad thing and if that intolerance of change manifests itself in a dislike of "other" nationalities, should it be tolerated? If you like the Irish so much, how many arguments did you have with London friends who prohibited them from staying in boarding > houses? As neighbours? Blimey! I was accused of having "chips on my shoulders" but you keep bangin' on about the "No Blacks/Irish (don't forget "Dogs" as well (!))....of course that was DISGRACEFUL..OBVIOUSLY DISGUSTING...none of that had anything to do with me Sean and I do not know any Landlords, past or present. People don't like "change", as a rule, 'tis true particularly as the change affects the culture that they are familiar with and probably, love. > > And what traits of the irish do you ascribe ? > > "Gregarious, Generous, Fun, Friendly, Love a Drink > and a Gamble"> > Well blow me over if that doesn't sound like most people from most countries I know. I lived in East Ham for several years on a street where (despite the breakdown of the borough's population above) it so happend I was one of the only white faces on the block. What did I find? I found most of the Asian and African natives to be sociable, friendly and tolerant. We got on juuuust fine. I didn't see any problems. It was safe. What is the problem exactly? Don't give me that bland "we are all the same" hogwash, load of old baloney. Of course INDIVIDUALS share similar traits but as an Irishman said only yesterday at Cheltenham, "we are a Nation of Gamblers"...thats a CLEARLY identifiable trait, as opposed to The Welsh, for example. Do you agree Sean? > > So "straigt enough for you Seanster?" - nope. What appears to be the case is you have a problem with some nationalities. Tell me again wat you said to people in the 70s who denigrated irish people and tell me why you aren't doing the same for other nationalities? I did not say anything to anyone about anyone that I recall Sean. As I've covered "the Irish" and maybe not given the answer you expected (or hoped for??) you have moved the Goalposts! I note you have extended the net wider.:)

*Bob* Wrote: > > The irony is that (reading various posts) I reckon > Tony has probably made more of an effort to > integrate (practically, on a day-to-day basis, > ie.. for real and not just 'in principle') with an > ethnically diverse population than half the people > preparing right now to queue-up and denounce him > as some kind of send-em-home pointy-hatted loon. Here comes the truth "Bob"...I have no need to lie, as i "try" not to do "defensive"... The Guy I had a walk with for 2 hours in Footscray Meadows with our Dogs yesterday was Born in Manchester of Jamaican Parents in 1960, great Guy who moved from Vauxhall 3 years ago. In One hour my Black friend Kevin is driving from Grove Park to spend 2/3 hours here. My Sierra Leonese Ladyhelper is coming tomorrow Morning (partly to see her Dog which she gave me 4 years ago)_ My Jamaican g'f who lives with me most of the week is returning Friday Evening.....I actually have, as many, Non British and Non-White friends as I have.............................that does NOT stop me noticing or commenting on how London is changing b4 my very eyes.:)).... I just wish I had more Irish M8's though! Sean, Seannnnn...I want to show you my "dark" side...B)B)

Ted Ray was a very pompous Comedian, you are right KK.

*Bob* Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- "Newham is the most ethnically diverse district in the country, with no particular ethnic group dominating (39% of the population is White, 38% is Asian, and 22% is Black)" "Bob" "Bob" "Bob" please M8.....I doubt if there is a resident in Newham who believes those figures, I don't need to elaborate as I can't actually "proove" those percentages are wrong, but if one travels thru' all parts of Newham I'm sure you would not reach that conclusion.

Jeremy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don't think that anyone's losing their culture. > London is still 75%* white/british origin. I don't > feel as though I'm in a minority (despite having a > non-white partner, and neighbours from diverse > backgrounds). > > I admit that I do sometimes feel frustrated when > some people don't make more of an effort to > integrate with the local community, but the same > accusation could be made towards most British > ex-pats (or plenty of Brits at home to be > honest). > > * guesstimated figure Jeremy the point I feel about Ex-Pats in say, Spain, is that they stay in their own Community and, yes, shamefully, do not want to be part of thewider Spanish Community. However in being like that they do not impact on the everyday existence of the Spanish in say Madrid, Barcelona or any other major Spanish City so the Spanish, presumably, retain their Culture in these areas. Perhaps my old M8 Mockney Piers could confirm this.