TheCat

yes, okay then...there were 17m odd people who voted to leave...but you've provided examples of at least 3 individuals who at one time or another said something supportive of something Donald trump did. Case closed. Sorry to have troubled you.

No matter one's opinion of trump/hong kong/china/ etc...once has to give credit to this punchy put down of Pelosi from Chinese state controlled media today.....

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I could be misremembering this but... > > I seem to recall us ?elite remoaners? warning > about trump 5 years ago. And the resident > centre-right sensibles all telling us we were, > well, elite remoaners. > > Trump and Brexit. Same bedfellows. Same chaos. > Same excuses there you go with those apples and oranges again..... mind you, im sure you'd be able to shoehorn a brexit dig into almost any conversation.....

If your point is that they should have closed our borders (or at least introduced mandatory testing or enforced quarantine) in the UK. Then I agree. The action on this front is late, very late, unfortunately. (In a mirror image of the govt.... hadnt you been advocating for free movement until your post above:))

You can start with 'population'....then you can move on to... -Population density -Percentage of population who travel interstate -International travellers (both inbound and outbound) as a percent of population - totally different cultural norms around quarantine (of both goods and people) - complete differing climates - a significant greater outdoor/open-air lifestyle I'm sure there are more which I can't be bothered thinking of right now, but I believe the comparison is totally and utterly invalid in reaching any sort of useful conclusion about who to point fingers at I'm afraid....

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Quite something to hear that Australia has fewer > deaths in 10 months than U.K. has just in one day > today and claim it?s ?nothing of note? > I bought some apples today, and they weren't anything like the oranges I bought yesterday....can someone explain this please?

Sephiroth Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > uk has suffered more covid deaths just today than > Australia has since the beginning of the pandemic > > Spartacus. You are an idiot with your china > bollix Playing the man, not the ball again Seph? You may try to hide behind "not playing the man is over-rated" or "if someone says something stupid, I'm going to call them out on it" .....but you're not liberating us all from 'stupid' comments by 'calling them out' you're showing that you'd prefer to name call and act like a bit of a social media bully. I appreciate you are passionate about your views. But maybe try and dial it down a little huh?

Finally...after many decades since the movie's release, and many false claims, we find out that spartacus is actually Bob Dylan....

Yes agreed. The govt ministers seem too inept and inexperienced to constructively push back on what they are being told by beuarocratsand civil servants. Just my gut feeling...but I believe that this inexperience means they either just take what they are told as gospel ( I.e. "Oh, right, so it's going to take 21 forms to sign up a vaccinator and there's nothing we can do about it?..not to worry, tally ho!" ) or they try to bulldoze their agenda through and piss everyone off in the process. A big name who can crack some heads, but without p1ssing too many people off would be great.... Will Boris/gove and co be secure enough in themselves to not feel that appointing someone external is a sign of govt weakness?....I hope not, but wouldn't bet on it!

FFS.... "The standard operating procedures issued to NHS Trusts for ordering vaccine supplies from PHE warn that next-day deliveries should only be expected from Monday to Friday, as long as orders are placed before 11.55am" The f@cking jobsworths throughout PHE and NHS bureaucracies drive me up the wall.... Where's the urgency? We should be vaccinating 7 days a week, at least 16 hours a day (6am-10pm) at every site available (apparently the NHS has knocked back an offer from the 11400 private pharmacies around the country to rollout the vaccine, despite the fact that these pharmacies have trained vaccinators, who give the flu jab every year). I'm willing accept that things take time to ramp up, but I don't even hear plans for some out of the box ideas on how to supercharge the rollout.....just hollow govt and NHS/PHE promises and needless red-tape.... Rant over.

Steven Taylor Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The folk of East Dulwich are indeed very > fortunate- the million pound homes and fancy M&S > food only interrupted to huge disdain when someone > jogs too close to them on a path or a dog is off > its lead on Peckham Rye Common. > > Its a tough life in SE22. It was only a few months ago that you moved to ED from Surbiton, Steven. You were so enthusiastic and debonair, wanting to 'sup expensive whiskies' with the locals in your own words. Its sad to see your character arc has become so bitter, so quickly.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/05/overseas-visitors-face-uk-curbs-amid-fears-of-fresh-covid-variants thanks f#ck for that....after 9 months of trying to fill a bucket with hole in the bottom, somebody has reaslised we need some form of enforced controls/checks/tests/quarantine at the border points....Heathrow is an international hub airport, and even with lower passenger numbers surely its a key melting pot/access point for the virus into the UK....

I think its pretty important that we begin to see a 'Daily Inoculations" (and a cumulative chart) next to the macabre infections, hospitalizations, deaths data that's so prominent on a daily basis wherever we look..... At least that way the population can see that something is being done....

He looks pretty fit in this shot....

Have you got a source for this BB? My understanding was that the first wave of doses of the AZ vaccine for the UK was produced in the Netherlands and Germany, then the remainder would be produced in Britain. This is what AstraZeneca said directly in December. Do you have other source that says the Indian production was meant for the UK market?

"Why be so obsessed with the EU" Despite veering into pandemic discussion/government bashing (justified or not).....this is the EU Trade Talks thread to be fair:)

"Wish it, Want it, Do it" https://youtu.be/tvH9Y6Cy2ew

Perhaps more detail than anyone might desire, and someone more 'nautical' may be better informed.... ...but my understanding on the reason for the pulse finishing coinciding with brexit was becuase prior to that any country that banned it, it only applied to the 'territorial water' which is 12 nautical miles from the coastline, as opposed to the entire exclusive economic zone of each country's waters (which is 200 nautical miles). So from 12nm to 200nm is actually EU common waters for EU members. So the French and Belgian bans only apply in the small region within 12miles from their coasts, whereas the UK ban now applies to the entire exclusive economic zone.... As I say, Happy to stand corrected by any old sea dogs (Seabag?) on the forum....

I dont think what you've said there is unreasonable BB But you're conflating rollout with procurement. The original point being made is that it appears the timing of the EU procurement plan has been a disappointment versus the UK procurement plan. Which it can be argued is a brexit issue The competency of the govt in now rolling those procured does out is not a brexit issue at all. And indeed, things like delaying 2nd jabs, and the logistics of the rollout are a concern, and worthy of discussion. But, again, they don't invalidate the procurement point that your mate Trinny is making....

I don't believe pointing out the realities of vaccine procurement programme in anyway belittles the amazing international scientific effort to develop the various vaccines (which of course we all feel very fortunate about). Playing the 'distasteful' card here is just another method of dismissing the valid point being made DR.

Trinny seems to be getting a very hard time from the lot of you for doing what most on here seem to think is fine when it supports the opposite view. Just linking to various news articles. Furthermore, let's be honest, this forum is overwhelmingly 'remain' (in keeping with this area being one of the most remain constituencies in the country of course), and one of the frustrations for any leaver entering this discussion is that even when a decent point is made in support of brexit (or in criticism of the EU in this case) basically NO ONE on here actually seems to acknowledge or concede. Its as if many on here believe that conceding one a small point somehow puts risk their whole position...which it clearly doesn't. On this thread for example (and I have previously mentioned this issue on the other thread), not one person has acknowledged that 'yes, maybe on this point I can see that the EU has f@cked up, and it seems like it might be a benefit that we are not tied to their vaccination procurement scheme'. It is possible to actually say this and still be an ardent remainer for a multitude of other reasons. But no one does..instead the subject is changed to things like 'asking about how other counties have dealt with the virus', or lets focus on the 'broader picture rollout strategies'.....why not just concede a point and then move on to those other discussions? I personally have learnt to never expect it from anyone on this forum, as it seems to be asking too much (despite the fact that I have conceded various weaknesses in the leave argument multiple times over the years in my posts)....so I empathise with Trinny's frustration at the dogmatism on display on this issue in particular.....and see why he is hammering away at the same point....probably becuase it will once again be dismissed and unacknowledged..... PS Sephiroth....the article above is quoting a GERMAN scientist, so accordingly to your rationale on the other thread quoting what everyone OUTSIDE of the UK thinks, this should be right up your street....

Its hard to know what the truth is in all this. Pfizer and astrazeneca have both said that supply is not the issue, where govt/officials are saying it is. Of course based on track record, it's pretty hard not to think the govt is lying here. I'm willing to reserve judgement for a few weeks to see how the ramp up of vaccinations goes in Jan. But early evidence does not fill me with confidence - the combination of a largely inept government, plus an overly beauractic NHS/public health system is not a good combination for swift deployment....and the country risks squandering the early approval and early procurement secured in 2H20....

So this is the third anti-brexit opinion piece you've linked to in the past few days. None of these seem to reference anything other than personal opinion. I guess my question is, what new evidence or data has been apparent in the past few days to suggest these anti-brexit opinions are anything new compared to what you and other remainers have been saying for the past 4.5years? - each of these articles is basically just someone else saying 'brexit is bad' and people who support brexit are also bad/misguided...it might make remainers such as yourself cheer in solidarity, but do they really add to the discourse? As has been said by people on both sides of the fence in recent days, how things progress as we move forward now will be the true litmus test. It's only been 2 days....So it's far too early to make any new assessment. But if you really had to be forced to on 2 days of evidence....There's been no chaos at the ports, the VAT has been removed from sanitary products, electric pulse fishing in British waters has been banned (at least 6 months ahead of the EU)......yes, these are small things in the grand context, and other impacts are yet to be felt...but they are clear (dare I say it) TANGIBLE benefits.... But if you require constant reassurance from others that 'brexit is bad' to get through the day, then carry on....

I think you'll find that the hype that is brewdog have stolen my idea from the EDF, not the other way around. They have now labeled it appropriatley as the chaps at Brewdog never miss a chance at virtuous self-promotion do they!

As I said yesterday...the argument using others similar collective opinions isn't really an argument. Seph, you assure us in cafes, bars and bus-stops stops across the EU....they think the UK leaving is a bad idea. Well good for them, they may well be right, but these views don't really means as much as it seems you would like them to. Let's remember 30 years ago when the idea of the single currency was floated, that Thatcher was alone amongst EU leaders in being against the idea. Similarly 10 years later when the Euro started trading..the UK opted out. Well....I think you'd now find more than a few people who agree the single currency has been a total disaster...good thing Thatcher and co didn't worry too much about what they were saying in the content cafes back then hey?