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Government ministers have consulted with American healthcare providers Loz. They published a report via one of their think tanks. I will try and find it. What I would say is that there is not enough investment in preventative care. Some areas have improved on that front, like cancer, but other areas like mental health and obesity are extremely under resourced. If we want to reduce NHS cost, we could start with the diet of the nation. The long term savings to the NHS would be significant on that front alone.

It's not exactly free though. We all pay into it. When making European comparisons, we are not always comparing like for like. Many European countries have aspects to their health services that run like private models. In France for example, you will pay for a GP appointment and then claim the money back if you are eligible to do so. The only areas that we manage like that are prescriptions and dentistry. The NHS though still remains excellent value for what we spend. And what dismays me about the pressure for privatisation is that government look to America, when really they should be looking to Europe, where there are plenty of good examples of where changes could be made that don't in reality privatise huge areas of healthcare.

How is renting a temporary site not 'commercially viable', especially if the rent were comparable? That post office always has a long queue because there are so few counter staff anyway. Hope this isn't being seen as an opportunity to close yet another Post Office by Royal Mail.

Have a look at this. http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t55562.html Someone there also mentions that a layby is not part of the highway. So I think anyone ticketed should challenge as they are not parking on Zigzags - they are off the highway.

To me that looks like a layby with no parking restrictions. What is painted on the highway has nothing to do with it. Southwark would have to have specific and clearly dispalyed parking restrictions in place for the layby itself imo. There's definitely a case here for a challenge I think.

I think we can pledge some eggs. We'll buy them over the weekend and arrange to get them to you x

Good post Joe. The 5bn rebate isn't even something we actually pay. We deduct that before handing over any money to the EU. Without question there are pros and cons to the arguments on both sides. For me the issue is what is preferable. I think staying in and working for change will serve us better than leaving. And I absolutely agree with the premise that countries that work together don't fight each other. I want a world of co-operation, not isolationism.

But you are making an assumption. Whether a persons view is agreeable or not, it's quite clear when someone is very engaged in what they debate beyond just having a view. People who are political activsts (for want of a better definition) are usually very driven. Unions are organised and maintained and run by people like that. The came is true of charities or any organisation that depends on a huge amount of voluntary effort. I can't ever see a time when I won't be motivated to do somthing if I can to defends peoples right to a certain quality of life for example. Altruism might be a rare thing, but it definitely exists on many levels and in many forms.

Because you argued that more financial institutions would move to the UK, but thre is no reason to think that or evidence of such. I mentioned Holland to make the point that what makes any country attractive to financial institutions are the regulations they have in place, none of which are determined by EU membership. In fact, Gordon Borwn's light touch made London one of the most attractive places for investment banking (esp hedge funds) in the world. There were things that were legal here that were not legal in the US for example. The EU has nothing to do with any of it.

Sigh Dave R. Do you think anyone who stands up for people is a hypocrit then? I wonder what you do with your spare time? Do you just poor scorn over anyone who tries to challenge inequality or poverty or any other worthwhile issue? I disagree LondonM. My point was not that the Tories are the new Nazis, but that state sanctioned prejudice has a process of stealth. That was very clear from my words. But as usual, a different context is applied at the mere mention of National Socialism. I could easily have made comparisons to other totalitarian states. The government's policies on migrants ARE an extreme knee jerk reaction to the imagined support of someone who would go much further if he ever got a sniff of power (Farage). And as such have impacts on public perception and then consequences. The same could be said about the government's attack on the poor and disabled too.

Odd thing to seize on Jeremy! As an active member of a trade union, work and employment rights are very much at the fore of my thinking. Of course I'm going to fight for those things, til my last breath if necessary.

Except that there are other european countries like Holland and Switzerland that offer financial incentives we could never match. Take the 'Dutch Sandwich' for example. A nice stepping stone for tax avoidng corporations to our very own Caymen Islands amongst other tax havens. As too that there is any such thing as free trade. Outside of the EU we would be subject to the rules of the World Trade Organisation, which has it's own set of tariffs etc. There are deinitely pros and cons in both in/out scenarios. It's just a question of where the pros and cons outweigh each other.

Closed mind? Really. You haven't even contributed to this thread. That you join it just to have a go says more about you than it does me. Bonkers.

Such an intelligent comment Maxxi.

Godwin's Law is just a bit of fun. To assume drawing an analogy with National Socialism automatically renders a debate lost is stupid. My analogy was valid and relevant to the topic.

I think as well that part of the disillusionment comes from what we value and aspire to. People think money and stuff will bring them happiness and fulfilment. So the hatred of the rich often goes hand in hand with jealousy of what they have. And opportunity becomes about access to the best paid jobs and biggest houses. The happiest and healthiest societies are those who share and work together. The family unit is the simplest understanding we have of this, but a wider community can achieve much more. It's the relationships we have with people that shape well-being, not having the latest iphone or flashiest car. Obviously, things like genuine poverty, that extends to not having enough to eat, or to keep warm etc are genuine complaints. But when I see people moaning about the world and vowing to vote Trump on TV, they are often very well fed, in front of nice cars, bikes, decent housing etc. They are not the people on food stamps, working two jobs on workfare.

Quite Fox. I've been to Turkey a few times and it is an amazing country, with great weather as well. It's pure fantasy to think all those people will up sticks to come here.

I know a lot of people who think the same as you ????. The likes of the Brexit bunch and Farage are doing the in vote a huge favour.

I think the more serious question is one of why we are seeing a sudden rise in extremism. It's the same rise we see in all periods of decline, esp after global crashes. If another crash comes, and China is of concern at the moment, it's going to get worse. People really do need to step back and think deeply about what they are voting for, and look to history if necessary.

So I had to remove one sentence that asked the impact of laws on landlords and referred to the card you would see in windows in the 70s and 80s referring to dogs and unemployed and our closest neighbours. Bizarre.

It's the same process that totalitarian states use to prejudice groups of people - the National Socialists being the most extreme example perhaps. But they did the same thing. First they restricted the mobility of Jews. Then they made it difficult for them to make a living, and then they took away their property and made it a criminal offence for Germans to house them. See the parallels in thinking there? We should be very concerned by all of this.

Just take the process of state legislation the Conservatives are introducing to prejudice migrants for example. First they set about laws to make migrant mobility more difficult. Then they've sought laws (in the EU) to make it harder for migrants to make a living (by taking away the same in work benefits that all British workers get) and they are now passing a law to make it a criminal offence to house a migrant who is illegally here.

Thank you LadyD. I will have energy as long as people need fighting for. Uncleglen. You have no way of knowing that and every piece of evidence shows that a freer market means less regulation, including regulation that protects employees. Just look at those Tory cabinet ministers who are for Brexit. Do you really believe that people like Piri Patel and Iain Duncan Smith want to protect employees rights? There is no logic whatsoever in the idea that we don't need the EU for those protections - especially when we are talking about Tory government.

I'm trying to post to this thread and it won't add my post! I can't see any language problems with the post. Any ideas anyone? I'll try it in parts.

But that's how they think they win votes malumbu. By treating people as though they are stupid and can only grasp simple single issues. Quite depressing really.