Jules-and-Boo

Benn being sacked doesn't mean the dissolution of the labour party, New Girl At least we know they still exist - rather than the Chancellor - who may as well have vapourised.

more foreign investment - embracing the rest of the world! Wine from Oz! A new Government.

People vote for reasons that apply to them personally. Most of UK wanted out - and 40% of London did too. There are no doubt many varied reasons for both sides to have voted - and votes for remain are as likely to have been driven by fear of the unknown (better the devil you know) as votes for leave were driven by appetite for change/ dissatisfaction. It's true that both political sides lied to get the voters on their side. It's more true now, that we need to work together - cross party collaboration - to get the best for Britain and move forward. It may even bring positive changes to the EU for the countries remaining. It does not mean we will follow Norway for a single market at all. It does not mean the banks will all move out of London - the banking passport will ensure movement across EU zones.

Not all racists voted for Brexit - and not all who votes for Brexit are racist. Generalisations are really quite dangerous. People on both sides of the vote fell foul of the lies of each side. Each side have valid points to make. If anything, it's shown how weak our own governemt is, how dismissive the EU are of the general people and how necessary change is - in both sections of this. The World is bigger than Europe and while it will take time to settle and parties to reform - and agreements to be made, the anger needs to cool. Heated, angry decsions will do no good.

While EU is reacting by demanding an immediate exit, it's not doing itself any favours either, to rush. Other EU countries are dissatisfied who are more wholly involved in EU than UK ever was. What is required are mature politics, not knee jerk reactions. UK will start negotiations but it needs to stabilise itself. There is turmoil of course - all kinds of activity in the Labour Party overnight and quiet on the Tory front (disappointed but hardly surprised by Cameron's resignation).

If a second referendum were granted, it would need a greater turn out that the first i.e. over three quarters of the popultation. At best, you'd get all the original remain, plus some converts less those that can't be bothered to turn up again. How realistic would it be to be voted by an even higher number than the Actual Referendum.

I may have misspoke, but I didn't inhale.

so, when France and Holland and Italy have their referendum and get out.... what party will the EU be?

this, that they've denied publicly?

that, LM, is the rather scary fact - that we need a leadership competent in leading us through this. Whomever this will be (clearly Cameron is short of backbone and has opted out of this challenge) can be sure that they will need to deliver, as there will be no scapegoat.

interesting journey on the Jubilee Line this morning - one guy calling everyone C*NTS (yes! really!) and hilarious bankers - one of whom was just saying 'I submitted my residency application in time' and another who announced he was moving to Frankfurtt - cue laughter.... oh dear, the 'little racist people who should just pay taxes and shut up' have actually had something to say on the matter.

you'd get labelled a stalker if you asked Admin to find out when she was online last ;-)

attention seeker....boring!

oh dear god.

probabaly as it's so up in the air....roll on tomorrow

I guess we're all done, then. LM - don't be offended. Perhaps your intention is different to my interpretation. At the end of the day, all facts can be presented to deliver a particular result. Taking some facts, to support an arguement, ignoring others which contradict the point.... It used to be called 'spin'. I have voted and heard some rather scary conversations at the polling station. Generally indicative of perceptions of versions of truth....but these votes all count. Either we're staying in and selling our souls to the devil, or being embraced by angels.......we won't know until it's too late. We have to look at where we are, if we think it's a good place and what we think will make it better. And it can be difficult to be objective.

maxxi's got a point. Part of debate is understanding the other's point of view - not necessarily agreeing with them.... just not belittling them because they don't align with your own.

"Lets vote remain and lead within Europe by example & press for reform that will be in the greater good for Europe as a whole". yes - well, unfortunately, there is a large sway of other countries to influence and win over, if we were to push for reform. They would all have to want that to happen. Our views, ideals, values etc. are all diverse. In some areas, we are struggling to influence - look at transportation of live animals. Other countries in EU frankly do not care and this reform fails. We have more power to influence our OWN reform and thereby influence Europe.

The public should have to pass some sort of basic IQ test before being allowed to vote. Yes - I wonder if some people think the vote is about England staying in the Euro football......

Hilarious! We have all been taken for a ride by Posh Lindylou - who actually posts on West Dulwich Forum as boring east dulwich Posted by: lindylou 29 December, 2007 23:13 Hi everyone in West Dulwich. I am new to this forum. I have been posting on EDF as a new member but find them v. strange. Don't get me wrong - I am a working class lass, actually working in a domestic environment in west dulwich for a very nice family. In my previous working life I was a legal secretary but actually became so stressed with the job I suffered a near heart-attack. Admittedly this was 30 or so years ago. I then decided to enter domestic work (which has been in our family for years) and find I enjoy this work so much. I love people and looking after people. However, I do love to keep up to date pseudo-intellectually,and I also love to mix well with people. I find the ED lot very brash, vulgar and up their own A***ses, which I find upper classes and lower classes at least have in common (we cannot abide the middle man). Well either you will accept my postings or not - I hope I can keep you all informed of the latest in ED. Feel free to read my posts on the ED forum. Much love.

I have it and it's fine.

A majority vote to leave would have to be endorsed by a vote in Parliament, so not automatic. An obvious point that is not coming up is how useless our own Government is - perhaps a REALLY radical solution to our problems with EU would be to solve our problems at home first.

many problems are solved with chocolate.

that's SO funny - thanks Uncle Glen. so - back to the railways (chocolate is better)... the EU's objective in the First Railway Directive is clearly to "open up national freight and passenger markets to cross-border competition?. Hardly a precursor for nationalising railways - more about making money from the customer, which is pretty much where we are now.... focus on profit, lack of customer care....priorities, priorities... Yes, it may have a caveat that it is ok with local/ urban or suburban lines - that's not really the point - is it. Under EU law, it's now a legal requirement for independent companies to be able to apply for non-discriminatory track access on a member state's track.... Happy commuting?

ok, deal.... I'm fickle..... that aside, I've just been reading about how EU law would prevent renationalisation of the railways. I'd quite like to see that happen. EU is all about competition and the laws are stating that we must allow competitive companies to run on our tracks. Voting to remain, while it does have many positives - also is shadowed by some serious negatives. There are a lot of views on here, but they all seem to be one-sided and not acknowledging the values of the others - which is the true value of debate.