Huguenot

@Scylla100, a general drop in confidence in the banking industry can create a 'run' on the banks. However, banks don't carry enough reserves to pay out to everybody and panic ensues. This happened with Northern Rock a few years ago. The government had to prevent this spreading to other banks by guaranteeing savings. So yes, if enough individuals seed the hysteria then it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It's an adult forum, not a whimsical self-help group. If people want to make extraordinary claims about the fall of society supported by random fabricated quotes and copy & paste exercises from US lunatic fringe bulletin boards they can expect to get the odd 'nutter' sobriquet. Claiming offence is just another way of some groups to stifle criticism. Several well known posters do it frequently after they've dished out a load of abuse themselves. The fact that some of these claims are destructive, abusive, upsetting for many people, and intended to be self-fulfilling means they should receive especially rigorous attention.

A sensible side to AFN? Shocked. ;-)

Mind you, given that Snorks is on his/her 5th incarnation already, there's no knowing whether or not trizza is Snorky. They seek him here, they seek him there... Gang Activity.

There you go LM, a few tips and you'll get quick results.

What?

A fish supper? Always.

*Gives Tarot his jacket back*

@LD I have been at pains to point out that the banking community needs some attention. My argument is unrelated. I'm simply pointing out that 'in need of attention' does not equal 'unmitigated collapse of life as we know it'.

"So let me get this clear, you don't like fractional reserve banking? "No I don?t like fraud and corruption, that passes itself off as banking." Fractional reserve banking is not inherently corrupt or fraudulent. It's necessary to allow society to invest in activity now that will creat a future return. That's how you build a factory before it manufactures anything. As a result it doesn't hold the reserves for the currency it transacts - it's simply owed that cash by other people. This is a casual assumption that we make about the banking environment, and enables, for example, small business loans. It's possible to argue that there have been too many loans made recently that are unlikely to be repaid, but this is a subjective perspective. Any loan is a risk. It doesn't make it corrupt or fraudulent by definition.

Much love LD :)

@LD "The teenagers are not politically sophisticated, but they understand that the MPs had their hands in the till, the papers acted illegally and the bankers ripped everyone off." That's pretty sweeping eh? @NN "Just like, ?I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum ??" So let me get this clear, you don't like fractional reserve banking?

Oh bollix NN, that's just one journalists's spin. No greater value than that. It's not a currency now - it's a pledge to honour debt in any currency. It doesn't give a shit about anything else. You were using it as justification for the collapse of the world economy, now you're clutching at straws. @LD I was referring to any claim that you or others may have made that 'they're all liars and frauds', I'm sure you don't want me to trawl through your posts (it probably won't take long) to where I find sweeping comments about bankers or politicos?

Let's now return to the original premise - that the world has a catastophe in the offing which is going to leave us all on our knees. We've amended that to the fact that there is a banking community that needs reining in, increased regulation and a change of incentives?

@LD... So you've turneed away from tarring everyone with the same brush then? Small mercys....

@NN.. And? All of that says that the intergovernmental loan system has made more loans available. It doesn't make it a reserve currency. If any of the transations were 'real' it would have to be converted in to a... currency. It's the same as two people exhanging bills at the bar - "the last round cost me 13 quid, and this one only cost 10 quid - you owe me three, you can pay me any way you want or in kind, is that okay?" Of course it's OK - The Russians and the Chinese don't suddenly launch their nukes.

"Once again, I know your views regarding SDR, I also know the history of the SDR, thank you." It's not a view, it's a fact. SDR is not a currency, and can never be a reserve currency.

You'll need to find the quote LD. I can see how he says the systems were decpetive, I can't see where he says the people were deceptive. That's different to the claims made on this thread where the words liar, cheat amd fraud were used to address individuals.

"When empires come to the end of their natural life ugly things happen." SDR is 40 years old. You can't use it as an illustration of the current challenges unless you were willing to claim the same in '69. As for 'opinion' - that's ridiculous. You claimed it was a reserve currency to supplant the dollar that Russia and China would refuse. That's like claiming the UK is a country between Australia and Fiji. It's incorrect on so many levels it can't be classed as a valid opinion.

Yeah, and none of that talks about economic hitmen. Most importantly Stiglitz makes no claim that the 'deceptive systems' were deliberately so - in fact he is clear that the systems were deceptive not the people. As in "The VW Golf is deceptively quick..." So I trust you're not using that quotation to suggest that he was calling anyone liars or frauds? The desire to find some human to blame for this situation is so massive it's easy to see how anyone could choose to misunderstand that.

"What happens when the Chinese debt collector come calling." They don't because it's not in their interests to disrupt the market in the short term. Currently the Chinese need the export market to sustain internal employment. They need a measured transition to internal demand. The whole 'disaster' scenario is built on this tissue of hypotheticals that have no bearing in reality.

Stiglitz said that they were employing CIA spies as hit men to undermine the economy of the world? I don't think so.

Why are you so obsessed with the US NN?

"Stiglitz is less sensationalist and just gets on with explaining how the global financial institutions affect the lives of small people" Has anyone denied that? No. Nobody has said that global financial insitutions don't affect the small people. Trying to move the goalposts?

Lady D, you miss the point - I was responding to NN's claim that the pound could devalue, and that we'd end up like Belarus if it did. His quote: "Did anyone see the picture and news from Belarus, when it had to devalue? If so, take that and the UK riots, times that by about a 1000." I was pointing out that it has devalued, and we're not like Belarus. If you reckon it's down by 2/3 then you make my point even more strongly right? You're rubbishing NN's point all on your own. Geddit?