Huguenot

Oh come off it - you've constrcuted a massively convoluted "what if...?" scenario to demonstrate a point that is massively weakened compared with your flouncing around earlier. Then you come up with another one just to keep us entertained.... 60% of your labours? What merry work of fiction is this? What's that actually going to turn into once we've had a quick look at it eh? My guess is that you're talking about some kind of tax figure, and by the end of it we're going to discover that it's actually going to be considerably less that 1% of your tax that pays for one of the most effective and productive common markets in the world, delivering over 50% of exports... Or have you got something else illogical up your sleeve?

You've been stitched up, you've been strung a line - the Eurosceptics, the right wing press, the UKIP pillocks have all been lying to you.

It's the weakness of your understanding of the UK situation that is letting you down. The European Commission drafts proposals that can be submitted by anyone, but it can't legislate without the agreement of the elected body. The legislation is proposed by the Commission, in the UK this is the same as drafting a bill for parliament. In the UK a bill can be drafted by anybody - a private individual, a company, the civil service, whoever. Bills have no requirement to be drafted by elected representatives. Hence the EU is no less democratic than the UK. FYI the reason why only the Commission drafts proposals is so they will meet the legal requirements, as just like in the UK, ANYONE can petition to have legislation proposed. Are you getting the picture yet?

Sure, you keep putting them up Carter, and I'll keep setting you straight. Herman van Rumpuy - President of the European Council (the decision making division of the EU, containing the various Prime Ministers and Foreign Secretaries etc.) was actually serving as the elected Prime Minister of Belgium when we was elected to the presidential role by his similarly elected counterparts (including Britain). This is no different to David Cameron, who was serving as the MP for Witney when he was elected to the Prime Minister role by his similarly elected counterparts for other constituencies. Put simply: our democratic representatives are elected by us, and then appointed to office by their peers. There is no difference between the EU and UK in terms of the 'elected' nature of these roles. Jose Barrosos is President of the European Commission which is the equivalent of the UK Civil Service - they are instructed by the elected group (the European Council) to exercise European policy. In the UK the Head of the Civil Service is about to be Sir Bob Kerslake. He was appointed by the Prime Minister. He was not elected. Hence there is no difference between the EU and UK in terms of the 'appointed' nature of this role. The European Commission was actually modelled upon the UK Civil Service, and is politically neutral in the execution of policy. So there you have it - no difference: the EU is as democratic as the UK

This is just silly - I'm the only one who has tried to actually provide facts and data, and now I'm being accused of promoting fallacies by someone who doesn't even know that there isn't a president of the European Union, and can't tell the difference between the European Union and the Euro. What a joke.

"Now, I grant you the words "we must sign up to the Eurozone. Immediately." have not been written, however everything else you write does indicate you suggest that." No, that's your problem Carter, because I didn't say it for a good reason - that I do not think that. I do think those things that I have actually written - and despite DaveR pretending otherwise, I think you'll find that my views are shared by the majority of the UK's manufacturing and export business community. Your rubbish about a statistically representative and accurate survey of 32,000 people being less representative of European views than a picture of a moron with a fag lighter is just ridiculous. Not worthy of response. I'm sure you appreciate that there is no point in discussing this with you when you lie about what I say, claim I have suggested things I have not, and then dismiss all the informed evidence I've produced as somehow less valid than Daily Mail propaganda. Quids, the Greeks blame corruption, tax evasion, the banks and their ruling elite for their economic problems.

Doe he actually want to be smooth shaven? He might see a bit of stubble as a pull for the ladies? If that's the case, how about a beard trimmer instead? BaByliss

There's a whole section called 'What's On...?'

"Huguenot is right to insist that we must sign up to the Eurozone. Immediately." You see that's exactly what I mean. I have not suggested that. So what you, what DaveR, what Quids do is make things up and then claim that I've said them. The things is, because you cannot be honest about that, there is no reason to believe you're being honest about anything else. So what you have done there is cherry picked legal items from a document you haven't read and positioned them dishonestly out of context. The legislation is designed to protect the integrity of the fund from misappropriation, the opposite of what you claim. Most likely it's just a copy and paste job anyway. Hence beacuse you tell lies about why you're anti-European, QED you are prejudiced.

I was only having a bit of fun :) Although somewhere in this there is a point about there being a big difference between good manners to cater for your guest, and vegetarians having a sense of entitlement that you must cater to their whims. As for the point about looking for the slightest infraction, I was actually remembering when I had guests who refused to eat food cooked in pots that had once had meat in them. When referring to combing through the ingredient list, I was recalling guests who would go through the fine print on condiments to find ingredients that may possibly at some extreme stage removed may have been sniffed by a chicken.

DaveR, you claim that 'literally' no-one agrees with me in the world, and then suggest that I should retreat to a more rational place? Ha ha. I suspect that you ascribe thoughts and beliefs to me that I don't have, and project attitudes onto others that they don't share. Notably, the attempt to gather 'forces' around you that share your opinion is simply to engage in rhetorical bullying. I really don't care how big your 'gang' is, regardless of whether they exist solely in your own imagination. Just to show us what an insightful little devil you are, why don't you list my delusions (feel free to quote me) and then provide evidence that 'literally' no- one agrees with me in the world? My guess is that actually you'll make a lot of claims about what I believe in that simply aren't true. I will consequently expect you to provide data to back up any claims, instead of just your blah blah blah opinion. No? Don't fancy that? I thought not.

Why would you want someone who is so anal that they make you jump through hoops to like you? It's very rare to find a vegetarian intelligent enough to recognise the flaws in their fastidious behaviour, and those that are wouldn't pick through ingredient lists looking for the slightest infraction. Ergo, RosieH, you are sacrificing yourself for an idiot. Where is your self respect? Hit them in the face.

No change here DaveR, right up close you don't seem able to see Le Foret for the trees. Give yourself a little tweak: instead of criticising their shoes, why don't you consider where everyone else is walking to?

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to tell us what this new future actually is then?

And drown it?

I too am interested in ham brining. We didn't attempt a ham until last year, but were met with abject confusion by local butchers, who in the end pushed upon us some sort of precooked thing. Not right at all. So, where should we have started?

So far as I understand it's several items: A deposit in escrow that is 'fined' if a country exceeds the 3% of GDP deficit limit. A constitutional amendment by nation to balance budgets EU High Court to confirm compliance The Euro supporting currently include the following (but no Eurobond): ?500 billion ($669 million) European Stability Mechanism bailout fund into action in 2012 ?200 billion to the International Monetary Fund's general account The language on creditor losses would be moved to a preamble to the legal text setting out the rules to avoid scaring off potential lenders to wobbly countries

It's just bluster from Hollande, he's presenting vary little change over the currrent solution safe that his bluff will never be called. The Germans haven't said there can't be a Eurobond, they said that you need accountability before you can issue them - otherwise the peripheral nations continue to spend money they don't have without accountability. Hollande's saying they could have been issued at the same time as the new accountability legislation. By the time he achieves power (asssuming he does), he'd be able to call for Eurobonds because the financial agreements will be in place. So could (and probably will) Sarkozy.

I hope you were supposed to search, because I have no idea how you'd get it otherwise!

Yeah, but it goes both ways - it's not as if they guests are being tolerant is it? In fact after handing over their awkward catering demands they'll be sat on their bums drinking plonk whilst the poor host worries about whether their requirements will be met and the food be of sufficient standard....

Oh good grief.

A magazine subscription?

On the subject of the Drawing Room - do you really think it's the right place for ridiculous claims about Jewish mind-controllers taking over the German government?

http://www.hdgamewall.com/wallpaper/insane-17.jpg

Didn't all the formats change a couple of years ago? What are the formats that were better? I don't quite understand the logic behind the Europa League - it's a competition for the clubs that aren't quite as good as the best clubs, but better than the clubs that aren't quite as good as them? I sort of understood the Cup Winners Cup - a competition for the clubs that do well in knockout tournaments.