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It hasn't fallen. Cars cannot disappear as they have nowhere to go. Sept 2021 report admits a rise in traffic on ED Grove - it's quite simple.

I used to ride a motorbike to work and it was great for on call duties. I used to get it from both sides. Terrible car drivers - just the usual 'didn't see you', cars deliberately doing that slow driving into the back of your bike thing and on a shared bus/bike/motorbike lane a cyclist tried to push me off my motorbike whist I was waiting at a red light...I think they didn't know it was a shared lane so just got angry..but so, so dangerous to push someone off a motorbike. I was always my calmest on the motorbike - I have sensed that creeping anger on a push-bike and also that car irritation at others poor driving/cycling/motorbiking - but trying to cause another person harm is beyond me. Why calm on a motorbike - because I recognised the danger of riding a big bike, so I never wanted to 'lose-it' - so easy to do something dumb and end up very much dead. Car drivers need to remember that a car is deadly to others and drive with due consideration to ALL users of our roads.

Just received this by post on the 14th at 11:45 - Comments needed before 11th December - surely this is not a reasonable consultation if not posted to all households at least 7 days before the submission date?

Always a reason Weather Road Works Building works Burst pipe Leaves Snow Yes life happens that is why a system needs alternate routes. It is obvious to all who live on ED Grove there has been a massive increase in all traffic - yet the closed road fundermenatilsts cannot just fess up and say 'yes your road IS busier and IS more polluted, but honestly I don't care' I would have more respect for someone to say that (and some have to my face) than this continued gaslighting.

Traffic doesn't disappear from ED Grove halfway..that if it is 25% up on one section it doesn't just disappear in the middle section - it might slow down and idle. This is why the count is so dubious. Explain - where do those extra 1000 cars go?

Where is the pollution (air quality data) for September for ED Grove?

Taken directly from report - yes they contradict themselves several times September 2021 Flow Change ? Cars/LGVs  The map to the right outlines changes in counts of cars and LGVs (combined) compared to pre-implementation, at sites where data has been collected in September 2021.  Increases in flows have been observed on East Dulwich Grove and Burbage Road, the largest of these being +25% on East Dulwich Grove near Lordship Lane. These increases are similar to those recorded in June 2021 at the same sites. However the site further west on East Dulwich Grove near the Tessa Jowell Centre, shows a slight decrease.  The decreases in flows on internal roads remain similar to those recorded in June 2021. Turney Road West and East were previously mis-referenced, an error which has been corrected in this report.  Lordship Lane near Townley Road has recorded a slight increase (+4%) in flows, whilst further south at Court Lane, it has recorded a slight decrease in flows (-6%), reflecting the same trend recorded in June 2021. Negligible changes are recorded on Barry Road and Underhill Road.  Note that overall traffic levels in Southwark were down 7% in September 2021 vs. September 2019.

"Increases in flows have been observed on East Dulwich Grove, Burbage Road, Zenoria Street and Dovercourt Road, the largest of these being +27% on East Dulwich Grove (East). These increases are higher than those recorded in March 2020 at the same sites." Traffic is down by 8% across the UK so a 12% decrees overall is really 4%. So a 4% drop (which includes closed roads) and a 28% rise on EDG - while traffic down everywhere due to the pandemic. Mmmhhhh I will stick to LTNs certainly not resulting in less traffic and pollution overall, even using Southwark's published data.

They appear to do something like this to make an average. Closed road no traffic so that equals a drop of 100%. Open road 28% more traffic (EDG)- so the average is a 72% drop. The figures are also from all over the place - before LTN a combination of 'modelling' and various counts from various years - so 2018,2019 and various months in Winter, Spring and Summer The nonsense statistics used in the Councils report is a complete joke. 200% more cycling for instance could be 3 cyclists rather than 1 - so using percentage rather than actual numbers. So they trumpet 3 cyclists as 200% more but if instead of 3000 cars there are 4000 - so 1000 more it is only 33% more. Then their argument is that a rise of 200% shows it works because traffic only rose by 33%. If they put down actual numbers - a rise of 2 cyclists at a cost of 1000 cars is obviously not a drop in polluting cars it is a rise - no modal shift at all. I do think they think we are all very stupid.

I know...4 'consultations' all so far ignored. It is a very expensive exercise that we are paying for. I think it is an exercise it just wearing down any opposition until the point at which they can say there is a majority support for high traffic neighbourhoods. Of course they don't class residents of ED Grove, Croxted, LL and Grove Vale as 'neighbours' so our opinion doesn't matter.

I didn't get one - some flats in the middle of ED Grove did not receive this.

They started with 'the traffic will evaporate - there is 'research' that shows this is true' but changed their message when they realised this was utter rubbish and now its 'these roads were built for cars so they can take the extra traffic' As these roads were there before the invention of the internal combustion engine, I think they may also be talking utter rubbish on the second point too. It really doesn't matter anymore that closing roads does not decrease pollution, does not reduce idling traffic, does not make a modal shift to walking and cycling, yet does interfere with public transport efficiency. Like any fundermentalist movement any proof that their belief is incorrect or misjudged has been ignored. We are stuck with them unless they are voted out.

I've never been anti any measures that reduce car use and traffic malumbu, quite the opposite, which is why I am against so called LTNs. You haven't been reading my posts if you don't yet understand that. So good.. I'm sure you will all be writing to your local councillors to stop street parking in all closed roads within the LTN.

Maybe now the HTNs are a permanent feature, all the closed roads should have no street parking (with a few disabled parking places and some customer parking spaces where there are businesses) and have bike lockers installed, bike lanes and widened pavements to accommodate the enormous modal shift. I am sure that all the pro-HTN people on here will be happy for this to happen on Elsie, Derwent, Melbourne, Gilkes, Calton and Court.

So during lockdown and after HTNs there is 2000 more cars a day on EDG - but that is nothing to do with HTNs...but the small increase over Summer lockdown of cyclists is. Do make up your minds....

Data shows that cycling increased very gently over the last 10 years in London - there was the effect of winning cycling medals and international competitions plus a push for health - many also found cycling a better option than the crowded bus in the morning. If you adjust for this underlying increase, there was an upwards blip over the hot Summer lockdown when we were working from home but encouraged to exercise, now we are back to the underlying slow increase. The only thing I have noticed on ED Grove is children and adults cycling on the pavement as I try to walk to HH station in the morning - along with scooters both electric and non-electric. It may be safer for me to walk in the road as the traffic is stationary for much of my journey. Now the HTNs are to be made permanent, I wonder if we can change the conversation about how we make the traffic safer, with less pollution on the most densely populated roads in Dulwich and the main school roads in Dulwich, that currently have the worst pollution in the area.

It's about poor air quality, pollution, idling traffic, impact on health and public transport disruption, not 'inconvenience' - that narrative is the one that Southwark Councillors throw out on Twitter and in public meetings, when washing their so called 'green' policies for all to see. There is nothing green about creating pollution ghettos.

If LCC is involved in any policy, then expect ableism and middle-class male white privilege to be central to many of the 'facts' utilised to support the policy. Let's face it, Simon Still, a Lambeth-based London Cycling Campaign adviser was integral to the introduction of LTNs. He eventually resigned after posting racist tweets, but he wasn't sacked by the LCC. And LCC like to repeat the ableist slogan that there is a bike for everyone.

I would very much hope it has survived - as I like both oak trees and William Blake.

My politics is certainly left of Councillor McAsh - but amazingly this hasn't caused any issues with either how my brain functions or my ability to count cars, see traffic and smell pollution. It also isn't a cure for my asthma. I also have not been impacted negatively by my left-wing/ green politics, causing an inability to recognise change or analyse data or critically (using this term in the way peer reviewing uses 'critically') review published research. So quite why Councillor McAsh cannot understand that the Tory Policy of HTN closed roads impacts the residential roads that house much of Labour's base voters and that the consequential increase in idling traffic actually contributes to more pollution both in terms of noise and air quality defies any logic.

When I walk to Herne Hill Station - almost all push bikes are from the back of a Range Rover or other Chelsea tractor parked on Village or Half Moon. The last bit is on the bike.....

Thanks Legal - seems they have made a right old mess of it.

Wow - Rockets - I have just read that Twitter thread - so is Southwark saying that their are 'neighbourhoods' who deserve clean air and then Lordship Lane, Grove Vale, Croxted Road and East Dulwich Grove are not 'neighbourhoods' so we can just suffer pollution, inequality and more traffic? What is all this Village business??? I am a City dweller - My parents lived in a Village - shudder....

George is great and I completely agree with him - so much money tied up in increasing profit from digging out fossil fuels, building cars, shooting birds and building military weapons that the planet will continue to be polluted and de-wilded. The accumulation of wealth is intrinsically linked to environmental disasters. His article very much reflects Medact thinking. This is my major argument against LTNs - funded by a Tory Government who continue to build roads and take investment away from public transport - LTNs have become THE focus of Labour Councils - what a fantastic policy from central government to 1. Blame personal and individual choices for pollution 2. Divert the arguments from the real causes of pollution 3. Allow the continued dismantling of public transport because 'LTNs and cycling' are promoted as THE answer to traffic pollution in London. Silly Labour - out manoeuvred by Boris.

Stabbing I believe. I have no other details.