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I do like the ....'the roads were busy with illegal levels of pollution before the LTNs so it doesn't matter if they are now even worse'... statements by the 'LTNs at any cost' lobby to people living on ED Grove, LL, Grove Vale and Croxted. Surely the worst polluted roads and areas with illegal levels of pollution should be the primary priority of any council? Especially the ones with schools, nurseries and health centres?

The huge SUVs that pick up kids and park on Village Way SE21 could accommodate a small pony! But I'm not sure the size of child and scooter/bike is that important? It's more that the 'active travel' at the school gate isn't always so active.

This great..she is an amazing architect.

On my walk home from Herne Hill station I passed at least 5 cars parked picking up JAGs and Alleyns children, some with bikes and scooters...so during a ten minute part of my walk. I had to dodge quite a few of them on the pavement.....I do wonder how many the schools count as 'active travel' because they arrive by bike, scooter or on foot?

Or just campaign against Southwark building on Green Spaces.. Peckham Green, Brenchley and Bells estate. That may make up for your tree.

I dug around Southwark's own traffic report from 2018. Although it stated that East Dulwich Grove had one of the highest pedestrian and cycling accident levels in the area, did they consult ED Grove residents before putting in LTNs....No. They consulted Court Lane and Court Lane Gardens Residents? Association (COLAR, The Dulwich Society and Dulwich Village Forum. They also stated in the Dulwich Area Traffic Management Study Final Report April 2018 "A proposal similar to the exclusion zone was already brought up by residents in response to the Quietway consultation. Residents proposed to restrict the entry of traffic into a defined zone around the Dulwich Quietway ? particularly around Calton Avenue and Turney Road ? at peak times when pupils are making their way to and from the area?s schools (7:30am to 9am and 3pm to 5pm). The intention of a timed traffic restriction would be to take traffic away from the residential roads during school times forcing it to stay on to the main roads. However, since a significant part of the existing traffic in residential areas is generated by parents dropping their children at school, this solution risks shifting the drop-off activity onto main roads with implications for congestion and safety of children" Which is exactly what residents who want the LTNs removed have said - traffic has increased and is congested and unsafe for children.

Thanks James.

We need an emergency poster, mmh interesting about Court, but one way...which way? East to West or t?other way?

Yes there is truth in that Abe...my local Labour Ward voted to keep LTNs and the very active members live in an LTN. I think the ?square? though is definitely a bit of a two councillor show....with one very vocal person.

Thank you Legal, you clearly explained. If Southwark had followed their own guidelines, then the LTNs in this area would be very different. Calton and Court are wide arterial routes and not little country lanes - not very different from Croxted and ED Grove, except for the modal value of housing - ?3,112,550 in Calton and the majority of sales in East Dulwich Grove during the last year were flats, selling for an average price of ?530,500. This 'rat-run' idea is not only ridiculous it is insulting to residents on ED Grove, Croxted, LL and Grove Vale - apparently we are lesser mortals who deserve 'rats' on our roads. Seeing car ownership is very high in the chosen LTNs and significantly lower on our ratty roads, it would appear that most of the 'rats' driving down my road, live in the LTNs! The 'lobby' for a gated community has been active in Calton/Court/Melbourne and Derwent for many, many years. Professional, white, wealthy, middle classes...(apart from the wealthy part, I fit that demographic), who are very able to vocalise and organise. The point of having councillors is that they should consider impacts of any decision on those less able to organise, voice opinion and have little or no agency. Instead this really is the vanity project of one councillor, without any consideration on the surrounding areas, so that they are popular with these pressure and lobby groups. It is quite shameless and entitled.

Aaaah well that won?t go well for Labour....

Vanity project for Village Councillors ... wealthy areas trying to be ? a house in the country? by exporting traffic to poorer areas, while still having all the convenience of a city. Meanwhile Southwark builds high rises on green spaces in the poorest areas. Well at least when the cleaner leaves the gardenless flat on a busy road for the cleaning round, they can experience the clean, traffic free roads of Calton and Court...and have something to aspire to.

I think the posters who support the LTNs in the current configuration should not worry. Although it is obvious to residents in Croxted, ED Grove, Grove Vale and LL that LTNs have definitely increased idling and polluting traffic, Southwark have absolutely no intention of removing them, they have entrenched opinions on LTNs and even evidence of increased illegal levels of pollution (measured at cost by residents, because Southwark has not been measuring historically), will not shift their opinion. Time to move out of Dulwich if you live on any of these roads and have young children. You only matter if you live on a 'leafy' street.

I always take a bus or train if I can, ED public transport is pretty poor. When I used to get a bus to Victoria it was a bun fight at the bus stop outside ED station every morning. I?m lucky I can walk most of my commute now, 2 hours walking in all, but not everyone has that choice.

Monday morning, schools back, idling traffic all the way down ED Grove..was never like this before LTNs. Young children walking in all those fumes. I do hope all those so called ?clean air campaigners? feel satisfied.

Nothing low....nothing about being neighbourly and definitely nothing about reducing traffic.

Time and place mancity.....time and place. Sometimes Europop... so...you know, swings and roundabouts.

Take the test. It?s good for you to know and adds data for PH England.

Yes interesting, I think Peckham green is very well utilised and does have mature trees. There is also a campaign to refurbish existing stock rather than demolish and rebuild. So back to traffic...hope the zoom event goes well, I might come join.

Fado.... 2pm...what a musical area, but thankful for my airport quality acoustic glass windows! Maybe there is a need for a live music venue on LL for all our late night music lovers.

Well..I bought my flat as a poorly paid junior health professional 30 years ago. I wish it was worth 3 million. I think you might find that houses in Calton, Court, Melbourne, Derwent are as a mode average far more expensive than ED Grove. A mean average isn't much use when thinking about house prices because if you have one 4 mill house and 3 400K flats your average is 1.3 million which is silly if looking at house prices on ED Grove. From RightMove 'The majority of sales in East Dulwich Grove during the last year were flats, selling for an average price of ?530,500' which is cheap for this area. Compare to gated community Melbourne 'The majority of sales in Melbourne Grove during the last year were terraced properties, selling for an average price of ?1,060,000.' and gated community Calton Ave 'Properties in Calton Avenue had an overall average price of ?2,700,000 over the last year. Overall, sold prices in Calton Avenue over the last year were 68% up on the previous year.' Or gated community Court Lane 'Properties in Court Lane had an overall average price of ?1,781,667 over the last year. The majority of sales in Court Lane during the last year were terraced properties, selling for an average price of ?1,795,833. Semi-detached properties sold for an average of ?1,753,333.' There are a lot of posters on the Dutch Estate, posters at the LL end and the Village end, with privately owned flats along the middle. The rental flats - of which there are many - on conversations with some renters, hate the increased traffic, but are worried about landlords, so will not put a poster up. I'm amazed by the support for re-thinking the LTNs on ED Grove..many people are very upset about the extra traffic on an already illegally polluted road. Many residents live in flats with no garden, very different from the houses in the LTNs, many of which have huge gardens.

Try mode average for ED Grove...and yes, much of the rental in ED Grove are not allowed to put up posters.. During local and national elections very few posters go up.... I think the number of posters voicing that LTNs are causing more traffic on our roads is incredible. I haven't seen even one poster up - from the local Labour Party campaign for LTNs that was sent round to members. It went along the line that car ownership was bad... I suppose it is difficult for the SUV or Diesel car owning properties on Melbourne, Derwent and Calton to put such a poster..

So anyway, back to the discussion started by Tom. What are your thoughts on the infilling on estates and loss of green spaces, do you think this should be combined with the thoughts around air quality? They also plan to build on children's outside play areas - we know that outside activity is important for children. Surely removing areas of open land and mature trees has an impact on air quality in the borough. The increase in idling traffic is very noticeable, but is this diverting our attention away from this other tragic Southwark Council plan?

Exactly Legal - I thought the opening post was detailed and wide ranging - I imagine that Tomskzekeres has been involved in campaigning for cleaner and a greener environment for a long time, it was far too detailed to be from someone 'just getting involved now'.

Why would you ask 'why are you getting involved now?' why assume that they haven't been actively campaigning on clean air issues before? This is exactly the attitude that irritates me, the assumption that anyone anti these particular LTNs and is voicing an opinion on them are only 'now' thinking about air pollution and green politics. It's very patronising. Just to add as an edit..Tom, who started this post added some really interesting dimension to the discussion and it's a pity that instead of joining in a discussion a certain 'someone' just personalises the argument.