david_carnell

What does the cheese say when it looks in a mirror? Hallumi!

What do you call cheese that isn't yours? Nacho cheese.

Lucky man. Got a spare pair in size 11 by any chance?

Can't this be about actual shoes that are lovely? Like these: http://ibsonmens.com/engine/resource/shop/432/images/6c437019-c37c-4e05-b6ad-b504df1e8ad5.jpg

I was flippant earlier. Not this time: Let me ask you one question Is your money that good Will it buy you forgiveness Do you think that it could I think you will find When your death takes its toll All the money you made Will never buy back your soul. Masters of War - Bob Dylan.

I don't want to see a ghost, It's the sight that I fear most I'd rather have a piece of toast And watch the evening news Profound.

Chinaman?

Piers - are you drunk-posting again?

If you're invited that is...... I'd go for the microchip as my sensible answer. And the breville sandwich maker as my witty, amusing aside.

Without trying to be flippant, care to define what those "tools" are Jeremy?

You see....that was my point.....introducing Russian/Cambodian/whatever history into an argument about 21st century Britain is a bit like Tribune - interesting, but faintly pointless. It was a crude point scoring exercise that you started. Not me. And if I'm angry it's only because you take great delight in making points you know full well will get this particular fish to bite. A couple of pages earlier it was public sector workers....it's not big and it's not clever. You seem to see social mobility as a cure all. I don't. Unless the equality-gap narrows, I don't think that mobility can happen very often or very easily. And along with others I've suggested means of doing so. Now, whilst I have a rough idea of what your politics are (although I acknowledge they're different to the assumptions I first made) don't patronise me as if I'm still in 6th form debating society. I appreciate that it must be tiring when your the lone voice on the other side of this particular barricade but there is nothing I can do about that. If you want to leave the Drawing Room for good then I'm not going to beg you to stay, but it'll be a poorer place in your absence. I'm not so closed minded as to blindly follow any old dogma so any valid points you make are not in vain.

Oh please. You want to have a debate about Russian/Soviet history then fine. You want to talk about the agrarian pre-revolution society ruled by a tyrannical monarchy who watched millions starve due to famine? You want to talk about the rapid industrialisation that took place under the Communist (not socialist) regime that further widened the gap between rural and urban dwellers as well as introducing a new bureaucratic politburo class. Or do you want to talk about how "mobile" Russian society has become since the collapse of Communism and the great work of philanthropy all those oligarchs perform? Hint - only one of these topics is satirical. But my guess is you'll just put your fingers in your ears and shout "equality=socialism=USSR=gulags" over and over. Because really, the truth is, it was a piss poor argument that you tried to crow-bar into a debate that had legs and three different people all called you on it. But if you want to flounce off then be my guest.....

If you think the USSR was an equal society with a small gap between have and have-nots then you need to stop thinking up cheap-shots and go back to your text books. Ditto China. Ditto Cambodia. But it's ok though, because you know, Sean, Lady M and myself are all big advocates of the Khmer Rouge. Have you not read our maniefesto outlining our desire to rid East Dulwich of all intellectuals due to the threat they pose to our great socialist republic? We thought about inviting Piers to join us but he wears glasses and therefore must be re-educated in our labour camp on Peckham Rye. ???? - wtf? Really? I mean this was progressing as a decent debate and you chuck that in as if it's even close to a valid point?!

niledynodely Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think that Toby Young solution sounds terrible. > The whole problem with comprehensives was they set > up one type of educational system (basically > academic) and with it prioritised one system of > values. Other countries value vocational skills > like carpentry, baking, plumbing, building and > because they properly value them they properly > train people in them and these people then value > themselves. And because they properly value them > people actually want to learn those skills so if > they aren't academic they have somewhere else to > turn without feeling that they have in any way > failed. I think competitive educational systems > are fine as long as there are other roads to > travel along if you don't want to enter that > particular rat race. > > And another spin off is if you properly train a > workforce you don't have to nick skilled people > who have been trained up at the expense of tax > payers from other countries. Agreed. Although I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Whilst I would love this country to produce skilled bakers, weavers, etc until you move people's thinking away from price-based to quality based then there is a difficulty in this being a useful and practical life-choice. I seriously considered re-training to become a baker when I was unemployed last year. I still love it. But they earn almost nothing because people aren't willing (in the main) to pay more than a quid a loaf. So I decided it wasn't practical for me. I've waxed lyrical about bread elsewhere but it's merely an example of a wider problem. People no longer will pay for British craftsmanship (and it is out there) when they can get some cheap shit knock-off from China at a tenth of the cost. And with a minimum wage at less than ?6ph I can't blame them.

Final scores: 1 Declan Higgins YMBJ XV 298 2 Michael McCotter Croker Slammers 277 3 David Carnell Idle XV 271 4 arther dent Mostly Harmless 153 Despite scoring the most tries I surrender my crown to Declan. It would appear I am Wales. Let's hope we get some more interest in this next year. It would be nice to at least have 6 people competing. Well done Declan.

Yes, all true Brendan. In fact, the company I worked for lobbied on behalf of industry bodies. Even they needed help sometimes. Not much use when you're trying to win a government contract though - your competitors are likely to be the very same stable-mates. Or lobbying can be on behalf of groups of individuals - see the Fair Pint campaign on behalf of pub landlords. Although you can bet your bottom dollar that the opposing Pub Cos also had lobbyists working for them (who it would appear did the better job given the maintaining of the status quo).

They'd require slow, gentle cooking to get 'em tender though.

I don't know. But companies should be allowed a say in decisions that affect them. They aren't able to vote like individuals are so perhaps lobbying is the response to this. Only it isn't democratic because it relies on financial power.

More that it is very difficult to prevent market forces being involved and to bear in mind that it has uses.

Lobbying has been going on for decades but in the UK it is still small fry to what the USA get up to. The amounts of money spent are not even close to comparable. We are also less corrupt than many of our European cousins. I was a researcher for 3 years for a lobbying firm of medium size. To my knowledge we never offered to or paid MPs for any services. Some of our competitors did. It was an open secret in the industry. Lobbying is a necessary in our political system. MPs have such massive caseloads and legislative timetables trying to attract their interest in a certain issue is a difficult job for an individual or a company that doesn't know what it's doing. The bread and butter work is either a)profile raising or b)winning contracts. For a) it would be dull mail-drops and the occasional face-to-face. We might take an MP or civil servant out for lunch or to Salisbury Plain/Farnborough to see a new bit of defence kit. We had a good contacts network and knew who to talk to and who made the important decisions. Sometimes we were lobbying for British jobs, sometimes against. For b) it's all about the bid document and building on what you've done in a). We'd advise on future changes in govt (internal or at election times) and what effect this might have, we'd monitor output from all influential sources and advise on action that might need to be taken. The idea that lobbying firms routinely influence actual legislation is, imho, a myth. The closest I ever came was a failed attempt to initiate double British summer time. Not exactly ground-breaking stuff. The brown-envelope-stuffed-with-cash days are gone but no doubt there are quiet asides about directorships and board positions for MPs once they leave govt. The trouble is, for many young MPs these days, they're not qualified for anything else so the offer of a solid job at the end is quite attractive. Hiring ex-MPs is an attractive proposition for most companies. The inside knowledge and contacts that they bring is unrivalled. Ditto senior civil servants. Whilst there are guidelines about time elapsed before taking up these posts they are rarely adhered to. But attempting to stop the industry or regulate it further is futile.

Greengrocers perhaps? Turkish shop? Somewhere on Rye Lane (if you're nr there)? Quite a lot of choice besides Somerfield/Iceland/Sainsbos if you walk around.

Could I bribe you with MCC membership?

Peckhamgatecrasher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Good little match tonight, what? 2-0. > > > Only trouble is, I've lost count of how many > play-offs we've failed at. Go away, PGC. Honestly, Millwall seem to have some sort of hoo-doo over Leeds at the moment. And don't even get me started on play-off failures.....the way we're playing at the moment we'll be in the play-offs AGAIN this year. And lose AGAIN. Another season of mediocrity awaits. Ho-hum.

Pah....I'd rather eat that than this (which looks alarmingly similar): http://76.163.242.17/uploaded_images/jimmy-dean-pancake-sausage-chocolate-chip-736804.jpg

Steve - as an ex-lobbyist my hands are certainly dirty. Count me out.