Voting to remain

[Loz]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> I think now the dreadful news that Ms Cox has died has come through, perhaps we should all follow the

> example of both campaigns and lay off the arguments for today.

Agreed. Horrible news.

[????]

No one should go out to do their job and not come home to their family, absolutely terrible news.

[Jeremy]

Shocking doesn't begin to describe it. Made me feel physically sick, even more so when I read about her kids.

[root]

Of all decent people, not to mention kids and husband :-(

[Blah Blah]

Agreed. And perhaps now too, it's time for both sides of the campaign to also think carefully about the emotions they are playing on. A very sad day for us all.

[Louisa]

Terrible news. Sympathy and support goes out to her family, especially the little ones who have sadly lost their mother at such a tender age. As yet no news on what the motivations of this individual were, so perhaps for now as a forum we should steer clear of anything political, out of respect and decency.

Louisa.

[LondonMix]

Made me feel ill. Both her and her husband have devoted themselves to public service working until very recent,y for Oxfam and Save the Children charities respectively. What a horrific loss. I'm so very saddened for her children. I can't think about their loss without shedding tears.

[Otta]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> Agreed. And perhaps now too, it's time for both

> sides of the campaign to also think carefully

> about the emotions they are playing on. A very sad

> day for us all.

This.

[Sue]

I feel sick to my core. Really shocked.

[uncleglen]

I'm not surprised- Remember Anders Brevik?

[red devil]

Not surprised in what way?...

[Blah Blah]

Don't encourage him red devil. He'll only write something disgraceful.

[TheArtfulDogger]

In my opinion, our PM did a good job of driving people to the leave camp tonight with his to apperance 😳

[Louisa]

Cameron was predictably patronising and damn right rude tonight. He didn't address immigration once. And why with Corbyn saying on Andrew Marr this morning that we have no control over immigration inside the EU (truthful at least), the PM and Leader of Opposition have done the job for the leave camp today by just opening their mouths. Thanks.

Louisa.

[Blah Blah]

I haven't seen it yet Louisa, but yes, Cameron is off putting. He's almost like a robot imo.

[Earl Aelfheah]

The most insightful, informed and coherent talk I've heard https://www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/1293361974024537/

[Louisa]

Indeed Blah, 'the heir to Blair' once again proving himself to be a career minded political machine, reading from a memorised script. The man really is just too good at shouting people down with passive aggressive pomposity, I don't think he even knows he's doing it half the time.

Louisa.

[Blah Blah]

You are bang on with pompous. That's what seems to aggravate people most. I've watched QT now and didn't think he was too bad, esp on points around the three main lies of the leave campaign. Where he fell apart a little is when pressed by Dimbleby on things he was trying to brush off as irrelevant.

I think that the problem with all of these tv debates is that the arguments are so polarised that those who have made their mind up one way or the other aren't really listening anymore. So the fight is for the undecideds. Those are the people that should be making up these studio audiences. Otherwise it's just a repeat of the same merry-go-round of argument. Both sides seem completely unable to deviate from that.

Will be glad when it's over, but if the difference is narrow between the two sides, I think it won't go away.

[Blah Blah]

Great talk there rahrah. If only the campaign could have been built around the points Michael makes. Thanks for posting that link.

[JohnL]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Cameron was predictably patronising and damn right

> rude tonight. He didn't address immigration once.

> And why with Corbyn saying on Andrew Marr this

> morning that we have no control over immigration

> inside the EU (truthful at least), the PM and

> Leader of Opposition have done the job for the

> leave camp today by just opening their mouths.

> Thanks.

>

> Louisa.

As they said at the time - Corbyn's the Leave spy in the

Remain camp. Felt the word inept was a little unfair :)

His heart so obviously isn't in it - He just had to not

answer much on immigration..

[uncleglen]

Stephen Timms survived a stabbing by one of his constituents in East Ham, Harriet Harman wearing a stab vest in her own constituency of Peckham...that's why i'm not surprised rd.

[Otta]

To be fair to Cameron (and you won't hear me say that often), he had a much harder time of it from the audience than Michael Gove got. Even remainers were taking shots at hos government's austerity policies, so he had it from all sides, and looked more ruffled than I've possibly ever seen him.

And again I feel so pissed off with top Labour figures. Where the fuck have they been?

[JohnL]

Baroness Warsi joins Remain due to Farage's antics (Leave said she always was Remain :) )

[LondonMix]

According the polls., Remain has pulled narrowly ahead in most and at worst drawn even. Most of the polling was done before Jo Cox's death so the surge for Remain can only be partly attributable to that.

Louisa, what exactly do you think Cameron needed to address about immigration?

Immigration is 100% an economic positive for the UK. EU immigrants make up 5% of the country. Loads of Brtis have left for Europe as well so the net population change is only a couple million people. They are in work and contributing tax as well as providing vital skills the country needs to continue growing and providing public services, particularly the NHS in which immigrants play a huge role.

Most EU immigrants are in London, where most people are pro-Remain because they are best placed to see the advantages (economic and cultural) of EU migration. The supposedly lower skilled immigrants from Eastern Europe make up less than half of total EU immigrants and are too small a population to have had any widespread impact on most working class people.

Continuing to pander to the misinformation and paranoia in my view only legitimizes EU immigration concerns driven by fear rather than reality. The lies about Turkey and Middle Eastern countries joining the EU as a means to stoke bad feeling is for me beyond the pale.

The Leave campaign really should focus on articulating the advantages of leaving the EU and why its worth paying the economic price it will entail (I still have no clear vision of this).

[root]

As much as I dislike Cameron I must say that in comparison to the Goves, Farages, Corbyns and Johnsons from the Leave campaign he's actually coming across as a rather reasoned and sensible person.