Ill considered comment about child cancer patient.

[Keef]

PS. I think the one armed girl is called Kerry. The fact that she has a lower arm amputation should not be an issue.

She should however be taken off air for the annoying ernest look she gives to the camera whilst singing "the time has come to say goodnight"!!!!!!!!

[buggie]

...we might not be rushing to say "what Keef said" on this thread at the mo, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't post - I like seeing your posts on here and the different view they often bring.

Plleeaassee don't start adding "hugs" on the end of your posts as it really isn't you! x

[helena handbasket]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> PS. I think the one armed girl is called Kerry.

> The fact that she has a lower arm amputation

> should not be an issue.

>

> She should however be taken off air for the

> annoying ernest look she gives to the camera

> whilst singing "the time has come to say

> goodnight"!!!!!!!!

Yep, fully agree with that annoying look.

AND Keef, I hope you do stay because I often agree with you! I don't want to believe that because I am a women I can't consider views other than my own, and even if it is a family forum people who are willing to brave the mob and say how they feel are needed here. Plenty of people silently agree but are afraid to post, which I don't think serves the intended purpose. I hope that the purpose of this forum is not to have one person make a statement and everyone else line up to agree and give a pat on the back, there is no point in that. Well some days we all need that I guess....... but there should also be room for dialogue. Please keep adding your insights, I find them to be very thoughtful.

[The Nappy Lady]

Agree, not trying to send you away Keef, just teasing not Keef bashing honest.

Molly

[The Nappy Lady]

I don't want to believe that because I

> am a women I can't consider views other than my

> own, and even if it is a family forum people who

> are willing to brave the mob and say how they feel

> are needed here. Plenty of people silently agree

> but are afraid to post, which I don't think serves

> the intended purpose.

HelenaHandbasket,

Not sure if I am reading your post correctly, but I do hope you don't think

the rest of us on here are incapable of considering others views. One of the

lovely things about the forum is that you get so much input from different angles.

Also, if people really are afraid to 'brave the mob' and post on a forum where they

can do so anonymously I find that pretty strange, what on earth is there to be afraid of?

How can we possibly know, or make assumptions as to whether they 'silently agree or disagree'

unless they post themselves? Maybe they just don't have a view at all, who knows?

The way I read your post it left me wondering why on earth you bother coming here as it

sounds as if you really are not a big fan of the room at all, but I realise it is very

easy to misinterpret written text without body language etc. to accompany it, so I hope

that isn't the case.

Molly

[helena handbasket]

Keef Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Hmmm, perhaps I shouldn't try to chat with

> "girls", as I find it all a bit scary in here at

> times. :-S

>

> To be fair to Rogue apostrophe, I think their

> point was, that speaking to the woman at the time

> would have been useful, saying nothing, then

> posting on here does nothing to actually help the

> situation, hence the term "p!ssing in the wind",

> i.e. a bit pointless.

>

> So do you all see what the majority say on here

> (via sonar), then decide on what is morally right,

> based on what everyone else thinks? ;-)

I am actually responding a bit to this, as well as a few other previous posts suggesting that Keef doesn't fit in because he has an opinion, and that it must be a male thing. Nothing more.

Maybe mob was a poor choice of words, but I've had many private messages from people that want to continue a topic but are too shy or uncomfortable doing it on the public forum. I can only assume that it's because plenty of people find it intimidating, even if it is anonymous.

Not sure what else to say here, sometimes I like it very much and sometimes I don't like it much at all.

Right now I am kind of "wondering why on earth I bother coming here".

[Keef]

I too have had PMs, and I'm not just saying that. Something that has been said several times about different areas of this forum (and I disagree with it!), is that it is full of cliques, and outsiders are not welcome. I don't think this is the case, but people do get to know each other, and it can come across that way. For that reason, I think some people get nervous about posting. The family room definitely has a central group of regular posters, and if they are all agreeing about something, it can be intimitading for others to post.

I personally decided to forget the forum all together as it was doing my head in, but then I read a few things in here and it got me interested, so take that as a compliment.

First sb says to me

Keef, sometimes your posts sound as if you can barely tolerate some of the discussions in the Family Room, and you don't sound like you're enjoying yourself very much,

Followed by Molly saying to Helena

The way I read your post it left me wondering why on earth you bother coming here as it

sounds as if you really are not a big fan of the room at all,

(admittedly you go on to say that you could be misreading)

Helena has just encouraged me, nothing more, but there really does seem to be a bit of a "if you don't agree with the status quo, then don't say anything. If you do, then you're clearly not really enjoying the vibe in here".

I really wish I'd never posted on this thread, as I didn't mean it to turn in to this, and I do intend to continue reading, and hopefully taking part. I will however, continue to speak my mind, not to wind people up, but because I feel strongly about something.

Anyway, peace & love people!

CUDDLES! :)-D

[Ann]

Nappy Lady, I could be wrong but I took helana's post to mean that forums can be intimidating? I can see al ot of truth in her comment.

I stated on the We Rock thread this morning that The Family Room is a welcomed area to the (great) EDF. I was put off posting for ages until I got to 'know' you lot!

I think Helena has a pretty similar outlook to me bit I could be wrong.

[The Nappy Lady]

Helena, that's fair enough, as I said I was probably misreading your post, it just sounded so negative the way I was reading it initially, and I did think "are we really a mob?". Sorry if you felt got at, not my intention.

I wish people would feel brave about posting their thoughts though. To be honest I didn't think that MANY threads in this room were confrontational enough to require private messages etc. but in the past week or two that seems to have changed a bit.

Maybe it's my hormones? Like you I do have moments when I wonder why I don't just stay away.

Keef, I think it is really unfair to start pulling up past quotes to try to make a point, especially if they have been made by different people, because it can change the context. Actually, if you look hard enough you can probably find places where I completely contradict myself, it wouldn't surprise me given regular levels of sleep deprivation. I probably don't make any sense at all most of the time.

Just because a person doesn't have the same view as others, even the majority, it doesn't mean they are de facto wrong, or shouldn't post on here and I don't think I have ever suggested otherwise. In fact that was why I defended CurlyKaren's right to post this thread, but also why I hope you will continue to post here. It is a compliment if you still visit this room having given up on the rest of the forum to a certain extent.

I would be really upset if I thought I had driven anyone away from the forum, even if I don't agree with their personal views, my main motivation for being here is to try to help other new parent's to survive and to pass on any useful knowledge, it scratches the same itch as doing the cloth nappy advice does I guess, but in a more widely accessible way. It actually means quite a lot to me.

Anyway, going to have an early night as feeling tired and emotional!!

Molly

[curlykaren]

why post?

1) hoping the woman in question reads the thread for a start.

2)curious to know if others think it was as offensive as I did, perhaps some think its a reasonable request?

3)childminder and child are friends of mine and we were on our way out for the afternoon, the incident quite coloured our mood.

Approaching the woman in question was not really possible without drawing attention to the situation in front of little guy.

Keef, you are going to be a pretty busy guy if you are making it your mission to pointlessly post about pointless posts.

[Moos]

helenahandbasket, I just want to say please stay - I really like your posts and think you often have an interesting and different view.

Keef and I are pals so don't feel the same need to tell him I like his posts! :) And he is the gentlest, most fair-minded soul you could ever wish to meet.

[helena handbasket]

Ah shucks, thanks for that. Actually having some fun over on the slummy mummy thread so will stick around for a bit if that's okay.

[Fuschia]

helena handbasket Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Ah shucks, thanks for that. Actually having some

> fun over on the slummy mummy thread so will stick

> around for a bit if that's okay.

Oh that's right, make fun of poor Mr Tumble and his admirers. Is there no room on this forum for anyone who wears funny coloured trousers? Is that it?

B)

[helena handbasket]

They called us pervs, the cheek! Quickly wishing maybe I'd kept that one to myself :-$

[sb]

.

[Keef]

Thanks Moos, you made me blush.

Molly & sb, I'd never go searching through someone's previous posts to find a quote to make my point (there are people who would do that). I only quote recent posts in order to show what I am addressing when there have been a few posts in between. It's just meant to avoid confusion, not to twist anyone's words.

curlykaren, sorry for my posts, I never meant offence. Also, I never suggested you should have approached the woman, in truh, I probably wouldn't as I'm useless at that sort of thing. You're right, she may happen upon this thread, and hopefully it might get a message across.

Gosh, I feel a bit like a newbie, learning forum etiquette all over again, it's a bit different in here.

Anyway, sorry to have taken the thread completely off topic.

[curlykaren]

yes, it seems the thread did rather turn into 'the keef show', and while I'm glad to read the apology I have never before in the family room seen someones post rubbished in such a way? Quite pathetically I had a restless night mulling over where it all went wrong.

Obviously some of the other respondents had picked up on the central theme of my post, being, while we all would prefer to shield our children from the harsher realities of the world, at which point do other peoples feelings and misery outweigh our ability to do so? Also what tactics might be employed to introduce these subjects to our children? Theses are two perfectly valid parenting quandaries and I'm puzzled as to why you seemed unable to pick up on them?

Also the irony of Keefs posts are not lost on me, posting on a thread to criticise someone, who has posted a thread to criticise someone? And later worrying that the fact that some forumites know one another, so making it intimidating for others to post, yet quite happily rubbishing my post and intimidating me! All too often threads are picked apart word by word rather than respondents replying to a central theme or question, making painful reading with people constantly sniping at each other, and in this case losing the point of the thread entirely.

[Keef]

For which I apologised, and I certainly never meant to intimidate anyone!

Theses are two perfectly valid parenting quandaries and I'm puzzled as to why you seemed unable to pick up on them?

Again, I am sorry, I recently had been very annoyed/upset by what I viewed as demonisation of someone. I admit, with hindsight, that I probably didn't even read your initial post too carefully, before seeing all the responses, and my reaction was "here we go again, another lynch mob", so I reacted harshly.

I have to say though, that now I have read your post several times, I am not really picking up on the 2 points you make above, but that's probably just me.

I apologise again, and hope you can forget it now. I never wanted it to be The Keef show, and I have wished this would go away, but I always feel the need to respond to things, rather than just letting them drift away.

Anyway, to answer your questions then...

while we all would prefer to shield our children from the harsher realities of the world, at which point do other peoples feelings and misery outweigh our ability to do so?

I would say that it is a natural instinct to want to protect your kids from the horrid side of life, but that in so doing, too many people think that their child should come before absolutely everything, which is a shame. I don't think there is really an answer to this, you would hope it would be common sense, but one person's common sense, is another person's social faux pas.

Also what tactics might be employed to introduce these subjects to our children?

Personally I believe strongly in more integration of disabled kids in to main stream education. I know that a cancer patient isn't "disabled" as such, but sharing an early years classroom with a kid in a wheel chair, is going to make it much less "weird" for a child when they encounter it.