Labour resignations

[bodsier]

It's no surprise really....

[JoeLeg]

Yeah, but it's not about that anymore.

I agree with you that a lot of MP's elected as 'Labour' could barely be defined as true left wingers. I also agree that Blairites will be taking the opportunity to screw over Corbyn.

But surely no one out there thinks the Labour Party has even any faint chance of success at a general election? Is he fair, principled, honest and decent? Was he democratically elected? Does he have massive grass roots support? Of course. Can be become PM? No way. And so it's a terrible choice they face.

But he has to go.

[TE44]

"Its not about that anymore" I don't understand what you mean by that.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-new-shadow-cabinet-8291483

I think Corbyn may not be the most passionate of speakers but I find him spontanious with his words unlike so many politicians.

[JoeLeg]

What I mean is that too much of the PLP honestly believe they can't win an election with him at the helm. I think there's also a fair feeling that he didn't do enough during the campaign to support the Remain vote, and I think that has hurt him.

Of course there's a lot who just want him gone regardless and will use any excuse. And of course he's a passionate believer in what he says. But he is never, never going to be PM, and so what use is he as a leader?

[Jenny1]

But the problem is that shortly the Labour Party may cease to matter very much at all - and therefore neither will it matter very much who leads it. It's plausible that the SNP may be successful in their bid to become the official opposition. I find this very sad. But it's understandable given the way politics has evolved over the past few years.

[TE44]

Maybe once labours rid of the tories a different party may emerge. He is making change, seems to

stay focused on the issues he cares about, regardless of the shite hes had thrown at him.

[Seabag]

Firstly JC is like a concept jazz album, with all the chin rubbing that goes with that

But as a functioning leader for the opposition in the current situation, he's woefully unfit and sinking

Sadly tho, there's little light to shine on any prospective 'new' leader

And in the braided solitarily and inward navel gazing, the country is dividing more and more. And some of that blame has to lay at the feet of the leadership, because had he/it been more effective we might not be in this hideous position

There isn't going to be a 'next Labour government' anytime soon. So best it gets its arse into gear to try and form the best opposition it can muster and stop fiddling whilst Rome burns

And ha ha! Lib Dem is much like climbing into the life raft whilst the sea is on fire

[JoeLeg]

TE44 Wrote:

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> Maybe once labours rid of the tories

Not clear what you mean by this, can you elaborate?

a different

> party may emerge. He is making change, seems to

> stay focused on the issues he cares about,

> regardless of the shite hes had thrown at him.

Yes, and at the risk of being a stuck record, I recognise his ethics and integrity. I think he's a truly honest politician.

But too many of his personal beliefs are dividing the party. A leader is supposed to unite.

[TE44]

I like the fact he's breaking down that entitlement

A lot of politicians believe they have, he's given people postions who may not be so bogged down with old ideas. I've never felt Corbyn was lost or even cared about his title of leader and I wouldn't rule out a new leader who has the passion and fight. I celebrate those people leaving on op's link, i do not think it is a reflection on Corbyn more themselves.

[*Bob*]

IMO he's rather more slippery than his supporters are prepared to admit (for Lo! they are blinded by His Light) - but it's a different sort of slippery to what people are used to, so it's going under the radar.

New kind of politics = new kind of slippery.

[TE44]

Joel I would relate there actions of abstaining against Tory welfare bill, as an association.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/these-are-the-184-labour-mps-who-didn-t-vote-against-the-tories-welfare-bill-10404831.html

her's the others that abstained.

[*Bob*]

All this ?he was only 70% in favour so it?s ok he was lukewarm on the EU? is ridiculous. The vote was a binary choice. If you?re 70% favour of something and the choice is binary, you do the right thing, get your thumb out of your ass and campaign for a yes like it means something.

He hid on the EU vote. He hides on climate change. There will be more. His main preoccupation is to go from rally to rally preaching to the converted and avoiding anyone who might ask him any difficult questions or stray into any area of policy where he feels he is not on safe ground.

How will this approach work in the Top Job, when that job largely consists of facing-up to and engaging with people who don?t agree with you and ask you difficult questions? It won?t.

I don?t deny his grassroots legitimacy, but you simply cannot lead a party without the majority support of the parliamentary MPs - who, guess what - also have legitimacy, elected by their constituents. And from up and down the country - not just a metropolitan clique as Corbynistas would have us believe.

So Jeremy sticks it out, gets elected again, the party officially divides: I think that?s where we should be headed. The only thing left to decide is which side gets to keep the name ?Labour?.

[robbin]

I think Jezza is a complete waste of space and unelectable as a PM. In fact I think the Labour party will get properly battered if it goes into an election with him in charge.

However, I do think it's a bit harsh criticising him for his referendum stance. Yes, I agree he ought to have campaigned harder for his party line (having agreed to the party line). However, if by campaigning 'harder' anybody suggests he should have lied and/or exaggerated and/or threatened like Cameron, Osbourne, BoJo etc. then I don't agree.

If anything he told it like it is and was way more truthful than those scumbags. He stressed that there were major problems with the EU (there manifestly are) and that it needed reforming (it plainly does) but that on balance it was still better that we be in and trying to reform it than out (with the various risks that may bring).

Although I have no time for him or his policies, I think that was honest, if a little na?ve. He would have done better had he realised that politics is down in the gutter and that if he didn't follow suit he would be criticised for it! Now he's being lambasted for taking probably what was the most honest of all the stances I saw during the whole disgraceful, distasteful campaign on both sides. That's politics eh?!

Meanwhile other politicians that lied through their teeth are now trying to excuse themselves and their lying by saying they just ran a "robust" campaign! Makes me want to vomit.

[*Bob*]

robbin Wrote:

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> However, I do think it's a bit harsh criticising

> him for his referendum stance. Yes, I agree he

> ought to have campaigned harder for his party line

> (having agreed to the party line).

You are being very, very generous there!

[JohnL]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> robbin Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > However, I do think it's a bit harsh

> criticising

> > him for his referendum stance. Yes, I agree he

> > ought to have campaigned harder for his party

> line

> > (having agreed to the party line).

>

>

> You are being very, very generous there!

PM said he'd hate to see him when he's not trying Ha Ha Dave :)

[robbin]

To be fair, I didn't see all that much evidence of his sweaty deputy getting stuck in either. Ten days before the vote he was at great pains to stress that EU-wide freedom of movement rules for workers needed revising because that's what voters wanted.

[robbin]

Jezza's heart clearly wasn't in it. Rumours have been put about that he even voted to leave, although I have no idea whether that is true!

[*Bob*]

Jeremy seems to have misunderstood the nature of a yes/no referendum.

There was no box to stay '70% in'.

[Seabag]

It's reminding me more and more of this slightly culty 'don't you get it' thing going on in Labour-Party-La-la-Land

Yes I wholly agree he's a man of (often quiet) principles and I admire that. But when it's raining boiling oil out there (points to the current political landscape) you can't come out in your hill-walking Kagol and have a 'well this has seved me well' type attitude

I'm glad he's not a liar, but gently clearing your throat and expressing you thoughts in a near hushed manner, just isn't cutting it right now.

And maybe as a part of a shadow cabinet it would all seem so admirable, but as a leader he's heading 'the party' where?

[JohnL]

Some lady has just broken the record of length of time in a cabinet/shadow cabinet

3 days

So what happened - was she pressured or did she join knowing she would resign.

[JoeLeg]

Exactly my point.

You can be as happy as you like that he's shaking up the party or challenging entrenched views, but if the result is a massive no-confidence vote them you plainly aren't leading a united Labour Party.

There is a time for emotion and belief - and there should be a lot more of it in politics - and a time to recognise cold hard facts. Fine, keep him. But I'm not voting for any Labour Party with him at the helm, and neither are most supporters I know. He hasn't done the job needed, and I don't believe he can be a PM.

Labour are f'in doomed with him, ironically reminds me of the last days of Thatcher! They knew, just knew they would lose if she stayed, so they cut the support and coalesced under a new leader. Result - re election. Labour can't do that because they elect differently, so Corbyn reckons he can hang on. And yes, he has a mandate, but it means nothing at the general election, and Momentum can cry all they want but they'll still be no closer to power.

[TE44]

At least labours rid of a handful of cowardly bastrds that didn't even clear there throats, Preferring the silent stand back.

[Lordship 516]

I think all those shadow ministers pulled the trigger at the wrong time - they had wanted to do this since the day JC was appointed. It would have been better to wait until the Tories were in the middle of their leadership selections. What has happened now is a distraction from the Tory confusion. Now they are having a problem agreeing on a candidate to challenge JC - this will strengthen JC's position and make it harder to replace him. If he wins this time around then he will be unassailable but it might lead to a split with the Bliarites finally running off to form their own party ?

[JoeLeg]

Maybe, and then we're even worse off, with no way to challenge what will become a decade-long Tory hegemony over British politics.

We had that in the 80's, and look where it got us. We need a credible opposition that is able to appeal to the centre. Corbyn isn't that.

[Sue]

I was at the rally on Monday. Despite some media reports (the BBC said a thousand, Metro said even less - though carefully omitting to print a picture of the crowd), Parliament Green was absolutely rammed.

Looking around, there were people apparently from all walks of life, all ages, a fantastic mix.

Jeremy Corbyn's speech at the end was totally inspiring - at least, it inspired me - though he must have been totally drained after the PLP meeting.

Labour's backbone has always been the grassroots, and the PLP appear to be out of touch with what party members actually want.

I don't think it's possible now to have any kind of united party. Labour will have to split into the Tory Lite crew (appeal to the centre? They haven't done at the last few general elections) and the people who want to have a new, less aggressive and more honest kind of politics under Corbyn.

And that latter group may well pull in people not presently aligning themselves with Labour, such as some of those presently voting Green.

I can't say I'm optimistic for the future of this country, but I do have a (very) small, flickering glimmer of hope that honesty, decency and tolerance might win through at some point.