Fracas on the number 40 this morning.

[Doodles]

Dunno about that. If you take class to mean ?relationship to the means of production? and what else could it mean, then that?s an issue wherever. Even on the 40 bus (and that probably won?t save us form the lounge) .

Off for a drink now?

[monica]

We see buses racing down Lordship,lane most days and i have to say its alarming,i mean they are only rushing into traffic and a pile up of buses along the lane.They need to slow down,because someone will get hurt.I heard of a campaign to put traffic lights by somerfield or a 30mph in that part,but nothing has been said since.

[jim_the_chin]

my two-penneth:

a smiling bus driver can make a big difference to your day - i've seen one this year.

this morning i sat near a man talking to himself about killing children, this evening i saw a fight between a drunk and a woman

the most physically dangerous thing i do in my life is walking down the stairs of a double decker bus in transit.

[Nero]

About 15 years ago, an amber light meant slow down. Now it means speed up to get through before it turns red. There's been a real shift in our attitudes to road safety, probably because there is more traffic and therefore more congestion. It'll be very hard indeed to regain those values. Bus drivers are just like a lot of other drivers, but they should really know better as the vehicles they are driving hold fare-paying passengers. Buses are big and heavy and can do lots of damage. If you are displeased with a driver, why not tell them, politely. Nero

[jim_the_chin]

i'm sure the amber/red light running thing conincided with the 5 second green light thing. unfairness breeds unfairness, i pin this one firmly on t'authorities

[Doodles]

Drink taken. Better. Back on topic..

Point is, the passenger on the 40 this morning did complain politely. And it ended in tears. Or at least broken windows.

Actually, that?s not the point. Nero is right. It is about values. And I do think we need to tackle the mindless macho driving that is making getting around, by any means, downright unpleasant and dangerous.

[LuvPeckham]

Bring back the Routemaster is what I say

None of these problems on the old buses when you had a conductor and seperate driver (all the Drivers had to do was worry about the traffic and other drivers without the hassle of the passegers as well)

Maybe someone should redesign a modern version of the routemaster with DDI issues solved (oh hang on they tried that and called it a Bendy Bus)

:))

[Doodles]

S*d the Routemaster, bring back the conductor.

[LuvPeckham]

Same difference

[Doodles]

No. People had a habit of launching themselves on and off the Rout master. Tfl will quote endless stats about how dangerous they were if you ever engage them on it. The choice of bus is irrelevant. One person driving and one person looking after passengers is a lot safer than one person struggling to do both.

Of course, there is a cost...

[Doodles]

"Rout master"? Sorry.

[Mark]

"People had a habit of launching themselves on and off the Route master."

I believe some call it natural selection

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

Doodles - Class could define our relationship to power, not necessarily the relationship to the means of production.

[Doodles]

True. But if you accept a materialist interpretation of the world, power, be it patriarchal, imperialist or whatever, stems itself from a relationship to the means of production. OK. Maybe not that simple. But its late and I?ve got a number 40 bus to catch in the morning. Or maybe I?ll cycle.

Night all.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

I think that materialist interpretation of the world was a reaction to the capitalist materialist interpretation of the world and doesn't actually describe the true nature of oppression which is much wider than as mere objects in the machinery that is the means of production.

I need to catch a life in the morning!

Goodnight

[Marmora Man]

ChavWivaLawDegree Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think that materialist interpretation of the

> world was a reaction to the capitalist materialist

> interpretation of the world and doesn't actually

> describe the true nature of oppression which is

> much wider than as mere objects in the machinery

> that is the means of production.

>

> I need to catch a life in the morning!

>

> Goodnight

I didn't understand what this sentence was about at all, it seems just a grouping of words to me with as much meaningful content as "random green ideas sleeping furiously" Can you draw me a picture?

[Brendan]

I think she's talking about busses Marmora Man.

[lozzyloz]

That's the explanation I got when I asked why the No.40 was late

[Marmora Man]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think she's talking about busses Marmora Man.

If that's the case I won't need a picture.

[Doodles]

I understand. But don?t agree. The materialist analysis applies to pre-capitalist society.

Had a very smooth ride on the 40 this morning. Walked up and thanked the driver. He seemed embarrassed but pleased.

[ChavWivaLawDegree]

But from within a capitalist society, and was therefore, at least in part, a reaction to it.

[LostThePlot]

Doodles Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> No. People had a habit of launching themselves on

> and off the Rout master.

It's called looking after yourself and not blaming others for your own stupidity.

> Of course, there is a cost...

The money has already been wasted....

About 4 years before the Routemasters were withdrawn a large number of them were fitted with more up to date engines (Cummins -IIRC) the idea being to give them a continued life in service until about 2015 when it would have to be withdrawn to meet Disability act cut off date for Public vehicles (2017) (Again - IIRC) At this time, and when electioneering Red Ken said "Only some ghastly dehumanised moron would want to get rid of the Routemaster." He got to power and killed them all. In the world of busses there are suspicions that there may have been some backhanded shennanegins about getting the Bendy Buses into the capital.

On the disability side of things. Yes, they were not accessible, hence they were to be withdrawn to meet a deadline decreed,....Are Bendy Busses wheelchair friendly? Ask someone trying to get on one in Oxford street at 5pm...

And also the Routemaster was less polluting than the busses that replaced it. Furthermore, in terms of more effective transport the Bendy busses do not match the carrying capacity of a Routemaster, when you consider the space they take up on the road.

[Brendan]

Surely the routemaster could have been modified with a retractable ramp for wheechairs? And then there would have been a conductor to operate it unlike the automatic thing on the bendy bus that never works properly.

[LostThePlot]

Brendan Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Surely the routemaster could have been modified

> with a retractable ramp for wheechairs? And then

> there would have been a conductor to operate it

> unlike the automatic thing on the bendy bus that

> never works properly.

Brendan,

Sadly the issue is that once onboard there's not much in the way of storage for a chair, like modern busses have those big standing areas, so would block other passengers exits also.

Chatting to one guy on the last day, who was in a chair, he said he didn't want them to go. Though he himself didn't use them (He said London is a pain to get around in, in a chair wayway as too crowded so he didn't bother) and appreciated that they were designed in a time when there was less consideration for such folks, he saw how convenient they were for people who could use them, and as they make up the vast majority of the population why should his small minority dictate the needs to the vast majority. Must say it was an incredibly refreshing view.

Shots from the day here

[Frisco]

"On the disability side of things. Yes, they were not accessible, hence they were to be withdrawn to meet a deadline decreed,....Are Bendy Busses wheelchair friendly? Ask someone trying to get on one in Oxford street at 5pm..."

Compliance with DDA requirements and deadlines is only one reason why the RM was withdrawn from general service. I recall that assurances that they were to be withdrawn were given years years go at an Inquest, following someone being killed when jumping off the platform of a moving RM, in Oxford St.

"Surely the routemaster could have been modified with a retractable ramp for wheechairs? And then there would have been a conductor to operate it unlike the automatic thing on the bendy bus that never works properly."

That's highly unlikely, especially given with narrowness of the aisles in RMs, and the lack of any space for a wheelchair while on board.