House price anxiety

[Henry_17]

Otta,

Could be 3/10 or could be elite. Too early to conclude, we must await the next move.

Otta Wrote:

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> miga Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Good trolling DoverTheRoad, 7/10.

>

>

> Nah, people just took it at face value and

> answered politely. Poor trolling, 3/10.

[Jules-and-Boo]

OP question sounded like a question from someone who was struggling to understand what is going on - why would anyone not want to help?

I'm sorry if you think it's fun to come across as ill informed and vulnerable.

[miga]

DovertheRoad Wrote:

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> However post Brexit I'm deeply concerned that my

> ordinary, slighty cramped terrace in a pleasant

> but unremarkable part of South London is no longer

> worth ?1.9M. In fact I'd planned for it to reach

> ?4.5m by 2025 and fund my pension.

Yep, definitely serious.

[Robert Poste's Child]

Possibly a gentle mickey-take of a current thread in the main section (and probably at least one new thread a month).

I recall in the late 80s my father getting a badge that said 'I don't give a f@ck what your house is worth' (but without the @).

[Alan Medic]

I remember negative equity.

[Robert Poste's Child]

So do I, especially all the younger people who bought with a friend and then couldn't afford to sell up when things went sour.

[????]

There were also plenty of relationships that broke up and exes-had to live under one roof, really happened a lot; horrible times for us spoilt oldies eh?

[TheArtfulDogger]

We never had it so good 😉

[DovertheRoad]

Thanks for all of the comments and humour above folks. The gags about the 5% days are wearing a bit thin though...not sure I could afford my mortgage at that mad rate! But 15% interest, something called "negative equity" and getting stuck with the ex-wife??! Get outta here grandads! When I bought my first property in 2003 it had doubled by 2011. I was sharing this at barbecue on Saturday. Even during the worst financial meltdown in history!! I then bought a house which doubled by 2015, increasing in value by ?820k. Or ?165k tax free annually. Or like a pre-tax salary of ?235k.

Sure wages aren't keeping up but with availability of "free money" and gains like these who needs to work? My friend is a local estate agent(Edward Halpess, he's good btw PM me for details) and he agrees with me. There is no real reason why my house will not be worth ?4m by 2022. Even less salubrious streets like Felbrigg and Friern will do ok. He also thinks that because of China the old laws no longer apply. Not sure what he means by that tbh. I think he just read it somewhere. To summarise until something major happens it will suit me to assume that the current economy is well balanced and it's probably good not to think too hard about it.

[????]

You ever been to Vegas DTR? Just wondering.....

[????]

Anyway, as you well know DTR that asset gain is meaningless in terms of a salary as your home is not very liquid. To get that dosh you either have to remortgage to release the capital, which then means you are increasing your monthly expenditure and overall debt; sell and rent - then you are back in far more expensive and insecure territory in terms of what you get; sell and move far away from London...and who wants to live in Devon all year (or even Canada at all); sell and downsize.... you want to go back to a flat? Or, if you're braver, use the leverage to invest in something else - not without risk.

Enjoy your BBQ and don't give up the day job (or semi-trolling)

[tomdhu]

Real anxiety will occur when steps are taken to curb the effect on the market by offshore investors in residential property. Such steps are inevitable eventually, as ordinary wage earners, within 20 miles of central London, cannot afford to buy a starter home with two salaries on a mortgage without the assistance of the bank of Mum and Dad.

These offshore investors (or trusts or companies) are exempt from Capital Gains Tax and able to avoid income tax on rental income. As long as these two anomalies exist then the London property market will continue to be inflated.

Most other countries in Europe do not permit such advantage to be exploited by offshore investors and usually apply an annual tax on property owned by non resident investors.

It will happen here, eventually, but there are too many vested interests amongst politicians and other influential members of society to have it happen soon.

[DovertheRoad]

Bruv. CGT on disposal from foreign investors kicked in in April last year. About ten years too late but welcome nonetheless.

[Alan Medic]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/29/stephen-hawking-brexit-wealth-resources

You need a rethink DtR.

[Otta]

???? Wrote:

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> There were also plenty of relationships that broke

> up and exes-had to live under one roof, really

> happened a lot; horrible times for us spoilt

> oldies eh?

That must have been horrrific. I got stuck in a rented flat with someone I'd split with for a few months when a student, but the thought of it being long term is awful.

[Robert Poste's Child]

I remember my sister's then partner refused to accept that there was no payout as the market value had dropped about 30% and my sister was going take over the whole mortgage as she paid the whole deposit in the first place. The other half stayed put, behaving aggressively until my sister had to make them an offer. Horrible.

[Green Goose]

DovertheRoad Wrote:

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> Bruv. CGT on disposal from foreign investors

> kicked in in April last year. About ten years too

> late but welcome nonetheless.

Have been looking on line for info on this but as far as I can see most of the changes apply to non doms who have been resident in UK for over 15 years, as follows:-

""Long term UK resident non domiciliaries will be deemed UK domiciled for income tax and capital gains tax from April 2017""

My interpretation of this is that non residents who are also non doms will continue to avoid CGT, IHT and tax on rental income. A similar situation applies to foreign trusts where the settlors and benficiaries are all non res and non dom.

Is this interpretation correct?

I ask because someone I know has just bought a flat in London where the ownership was held by a trust registered in South Africa.

[DovertheRoad]

http://www.shipleys.com/resources/issue/CGT-non-uk-residents

[Alan Medic]

And you're asking DtR because of his sense of humour?

[DovertheRoad]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul

> /29/stephen-hawking-brexit-wealth-resources

>

> You need a rethink DtR.

Spot on AM. This is the real point I'm making here . I don't give a toss what the pokey terrace is worth when my mates have to move out, my kids will have no chance and the people we need to keep things moving can't live here anymore. It is a fecking disgrace that foreign investment in London residential property hasn't been taxed properly over the last 15 years and we've been left with a stinking ?%^$%^? mess.

Pretty much any non-UK resident HNW individual can show up with dubiously sourced cash, stick it in London flats, watch it double in 5 years and take the profits back overseas tax free. That's created massive distortion for "real" families trying to buy and rent in the capital and a legacy problem that will take years to unwind. London is not alone - other global gateway cities slow to getting fiscal policy in place to deal with influx of global capital include Auckland, Sydney, HK, Vancouver but at least the have space to grow. And it has ?$%? all to do with London being "open for business". This is residential property for everyday people. Not tax breaks for big business.

The Tories have started to fix some of the rot with recent policy but both big parties are to blame. What I can't understand is the general public apathy and lack of holding our senior politicians to account on this one. Middle class Londoners who have personally gained serious ??? over the past decades boom understandably quiet / head in the sand and / or talking it down. Service worked priced out and the poor non-property owning classes getting poorer. A sorry state of affairs and depressing that we are accepting this new status quo. It needs proper, common sense fiscal policy now to preserve and maintain London's future.

[Mick Mac]

DovertheRoad Wrote:

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> Even less

> salubrious streets like Felbrigg and Friern will

> do ok.

Hmmm ... poor buggers.

[miga]

DtR - yes, foreign buyers are part of the issue, but also unprecedented cheapness of credit, low supply, government intervention to prop up the housing market, (until very recent times) convenience of using BTL as a nest egg....as discussed a million times.