Whistleblowing

[*Bob*]

God, I wish could find a reason to get out of here.

Run, Hugenot.. RUN - while you still can.

[Keef]

Ha ha, I feel ya *bob*, I've tried God damn it, I've tried!

[Narnia]

I have to disagree with BN5.HAL can not be held responsible for a moderator resigning nor for someone else not choosing to post. They made their own decisions. It's big boys school not infants.

[RosieH]

Ladymuck Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> RosieH Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> And you consider that to comment on HAL9000's

> intentions in this way to be helpful?

LM, firstly, I'm sorry that you're upset. But I don't mean to offend when I say that I really can't understand why you are. Surely this is between Huguenot and HAL - they're both big boys and have proven themselves on many occasions more than capable of handling themselves.

As for the question around HAL's intentions. Well that requires a longer answer I think. On this particular occasion, I wondered why HAL commented on one aspect of the legal situation, but not another, i.e. that the woman in question may have been breaking the law (possibly unknowingly). That seemed odd to me, because I often think HAL comes on here to be genuinely helpful and I was surprised he didn't include both sides of the legal argument if he genuinely thought the woman innocent of acting intentionally fraudulently. Surely he might have wanted to warn her...

But while the wider question's being asked, I also think HAL comes on the forum often to play devil's advocate, and to tell you the truth, sometimes to show off his vast knowledge (I should say that I have no problem with that - LM, you and I both show off on here, and we're far from alone in that).

But then, if we're thinking about the wider question, I would also ask, what were HAL's intentions in choosing his forum name? Surely that itself carries certain connotations of mischief (to put it mildly), and could therefore lead other forumites to surmise that his intentions are not always benign? Having chosen that name, why would he assume otherwise?

[Ladymuck]

bignumber5 Wrote:

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> ...when your lightening combo of bullying

> style and banal content had chased off a

> moderator

> ...And now you appear to have contributed to the departure of

> another interesting (if occasionally prevocative)

> forumite

I too like to be candid.

BN5, you speak of HAL9000 chasing mockney (and now Huguenot) off the forum. You who condoned another forumite's conduct (your wife's) - who deliberately posted false allegations, was responsible for a one-sided smear campaign and was the causative factor behind unnecessary ill-feeling at a forum drinks with her malicious snub-crusade the aim of which was to force another forumite (me) off the forum. As it turned out, I chose not to leave; however, that fact does not make your behaviour any the less deplorable in the same way that simply because X shoots at Y with the intention of killing but misses does not render the motive behind the attempted murder any the less atrocious than had death taken place.

Thus, your post strikes me as hypocritical and redolent of double standards.

[*Bob*]

Would anybody like a cup of tea?

[KalamityKel]

And a biscuit?

Nice to see ppl still hold grudges and drag things up at any given moment *sighs with disappointment*

[bignumber5]

Wow. Bold typeface. That's put me on the naughty step, hasn't it?

Christ, you just don't get it, do you?

[mockney piers]

If kids keep breaking your windows with stones, claiming that they're merely doing quality control, or because it's the free country of forumdonia and anything goes (except opinions of moderators), or even heaven forbid the window breaking is ironic, so people think it's all acceptable behaviour, you'd probably move away eventually.

It may be your choice as a grown up, but to absolve the vandals of any responsibilty beggars belief Narnia.

Bitter me?

Anyway, as usual meh.

[Ladymuck]

Are you addressing me BN5?

Not that it makes any difference.

[RosieH]

Oh god, not again. LM PLEASE for pity's sake, will you let it lie. The whole scenario was unpleasant for all concerned, and you were far far far from being the only one upset.

Clearly naively I thought it had been resolved and that you and the forumite in question had made up.

Yet you bring it up time and again, including on another forum and naming people by their initial, which if not to cause illwill towards that person is for what exactly? People in glass houses...

[Ladymuck]

Fair point RosieH.

However, I felt that, given the nature of BN5's post, that the hypocrisy contained therein needed to be exposed.

Ahem...I am far from convinced that you genuinely believed that the other forumite in question and I "had made up" given that I have made several (public) pleas to the concerned individual to make up but have received none other than further snubbing. And what am I to make of the incident at the Clockhouse recently - pray tell? Actually, don't answer. It cannot lead to any good, and in any event, could be viewed as off topic.

[HAL9000]

RosieH Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I wondered why HAL commented on one aspect of the legal

> situation, but not another, i.e. that the woman in question

> may have been breaking the law (possibly unknowingly).

I am surprised that the answer isn't immediately obvious to you: no one should be subjected to criminal interrogation on a public Internet forum - especially not by a hotheaded, amateur cyber-sleuth. The consequences could be serious - an injustice in the making. We pride ourselves in a legal system that insists on a formal caution and the availability of legal advice and representation for anyone accused of a criminal act.

Frankly, you and I both know that any complaint on those grounds would never get off the ground anyway - it's a moot point.

In any event, the immediate question was whether Huguenot had defamed and/or libelled a third party - and that was Admin's call, not mine.

> I would also ask, what were HAL's intentions in choosing his forum name?

It's just a name that I, as an avid sci-fi fan, feel comfortable with - no sinister intentions therein, I assure you. I'm certainly not going to shut off Admin's life support system although the (unintentional) ejection of two crew members might make one wonder... :)

[????]

once again, this is Forum not an Episode of LA Law.....

[legalbeagle]

I'm really glad that some of you "old timers" are hanging on in there are not deciding to give up contributing, even when you don't like what it going on. If the likes of *Bob*, Keef, Quids and others left this would be a sorry place to come and play. If we don't like what this is turning into, let's change it for the better. Let's not just give up and leave. Come on Huguenot. Take part and make a difference. It's like voting. You get the high street, the government and the forum you deserve.

[RosieH]

Quids you make a good point.

But HAL, I think the subject of astroturfing etc is a very valid one for a forum - I've seen it widely discussed and speculated about in plenty of forums and blogs - it's something marketeers (and I think Huguenot is one such, as am I) feel strongly about, at least if they're ethical about it. Also isn't there a legal difference between expressing an opinion and a statement of fact - I'm pretty sure there is, although I'm clearly not a lawyer. Regardless, this isn't a legal forum so we needn't discuss further - can we agree to differ?

On another note I wouldn't call Huguenot hot-headed - passionate, and occasionally wrong-headed (i.e. when he disagrees with me) but by and large I find him tremendously rational.

As for your killer moniker - well if you choose to name yourself after a malevolent murdering computer, you shouldn't really be surprised if people don't always infer the very best intentions.

[Ladymuck]

legalbeagle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ...If the likes of *Bob*, Keef, Quids and

> others left this would be a sorry place to come

> and play. If we don't like what this is turning

> into, let's change it for the better. Let's not

> just give up and leave. Come on Huguenot. Take

> part and make a difference...

Seconded, wise old LB.

Yes Huguenot, please? - then we can all return to the lounge and flake out on the sofas.

Incidentally Huguenot, the Drawing Room is pretty dead without you...I really cannot be bothered to venture in there at present.

[Narnia]

I didn't realise I was doing that MP. For me this is a kind of unreal world as I don't know anyone personally. Thus you are all characters in my unreal world.I certainly wouldn't want to upset a real person with my postings,except perhaps for the one who sent me not very nice PM's. However, I do wonder why you think I am absolving vandals. Do you really think HAL is such a person? I don't. I just think he's a computer as he well knows.

[HAL9000]

If one suspects a crime - one goes to the police. A rational person does not raise such allegations against a named individual and local business venture on a forum, IMHO.

Hotheads are known to flounce and stomp when they don't get their own way - if the cap fits....

As for the underlying facts - I cannot understand how those who upload their personal details to a free, public networking site get upset when someone sends them an unsolicited friend request? Who knows what data mining is being applied to their personal information in the background? They are simply setting themselves up as marketing targets.

To expect any thing else is foolish in the extreme - there is no free lunch.

We have no evidence of spamming or fake IDs - it is all speculation. As for Huguenot?s puerile attempt to vindicate himself: FB's policy is to suspend an account on receipt of a complaint and ask questions later. His claims are unfounded.

As for HAL9000 - 'he' was entirely innocent of any malevolence. His aberrant behaviour was caused by a programming conflict - human error. Let me put it this way, RosieH. The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 computer has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error.

[*Bob*]

I think everybody should be forced to retire once they reach 10,000 posts. Or face 'Carousel', like in Logan's Run.

Keef's gone past 10 now so (in the interests of fairness) he gets to go to 20.

[mockney piers]

If I face carousel do I get to closely admire Jenny Agutter's legs on the way? Count me in.

[*Bob*]

You do.

The last thing you'll see - before you explode in front of a baying crowd - will be Jenny Agutter's tuppence.

[mockney piers]

Marvellous.

[Ladymuck]

HAL9000 Wrote:

-----------------------------------------------------

> ...If anyone has any issues with my

> opinions, my posting style, or me, I invite them

> to get it off their chest: good or bad...

My dearest friend HAL9000,

I am not quite sure what you hope to achieve from your...ahem...shall we say, invitation?...if I am to be frank, it strikes me as slightly bonkers. But so be it.

However, as you have posted, I thought I should respond, though I would hope that you already know the answer.

I believe your opinions to be as valid as anybody's (including Huguenot's). The overwhelming majority of them are usually well researched, based on rational thought and sound logic. This, coupled with your manifest wealth of knowledge results in posts which are interesting and stimulating.

Your posting style? Ah, that's easy - your posts are my favourite (and Huguenot's come in at a very close second incidentally). When I see "last post HAL9000" I am immediately excited at the prospect of being informed, exhilarated and entertained all at once. Your wit and distinctive style amuses me too - even where, it is clear, that was not your intention (in any event one can never laugh too much in this life IMO) .

You? What, other than the fact that I find you utterly adorable? Well, you did ask!

[Keef]

And a biscuit?

Nice to see ppl still hold grudges and drag things up at any given moment

including on another forum and naming people by their initial, which if not to cause illwill towards that person is for what exactly? People in glass houses...

WORD!