Whistleblowing

[????]

:))

[Ladymuck]

Huguenot hasn't returned.:(

[HAL9000]

He's probably busy fighting a spam outbreak on twitter - a superhero's work is never done.

[Huguenot]

Many thanks for your support guys, I owe you an explanation.

I need to do this by putting it in context. An illustration is worthwhile:

The thing to remember with a guy like HAL9000 is that he's already confessed to watching beheadings in Saudi Arabia because he finds it interesting. Have a look here.

Whilst I find it morally repugnant, HAL9000 doesn't, because other people are a figment of his imagination.

He's prepared to overlook even the most outrageous crimes because for him it's an experiment. He wants to see if their mouth moves after the head has fallen.

Fake IDs, spam and data theft are another experiment for HAL9000.

He's prepared to persuade other people to push for legal action against the forum to defend spam, fake IDs and data theft because he cares nothing for the victims or the criminals. He doesn't care if it destroys the forum, he's on thirty others.

For HAL9000, it's just an experiment to see what happens.

I don't care about HAL9000, his pathetic narcissitic existence has no interest for me.

I've left the forum because the majority of posters have reached the point where they feel it is my comments that are worthy of debate or exclusion, rather than his childish solipsistic wrecking.

That means the majority of posters have lost the plot. They're fiddling whilst Rome burns.

For me, that is significant. What is the point of sharing my views? So I won't bother.

HAL9000 probably will, because his convictions are sociopathic. When the forum is undermined by his activities he will watch momentarily, like a minor with his finger up his nose barbecuing live worms, and then in moments will turn his head to another target.

This is the hair shirt you've knitted for yourselves. You've pushed away those that love you the most in favour of those that mean you nothing but evil.

[Huguenot]

In case anyone thinks that my observations lacked foundation...

I complained about the Fake IDs to Facebook. Since then both of the accounts I cited have been removed.

It's simply implausible that this could possibly have happened if the IDs were true.

This means either Facebook discovered them to be fraudulent and removed them, or the person that manufactured these IDs has removed them.

I stand vindicated - any 'libel' case would have failed to make court, simply on the defence of truth.

[Moos]

Huguenot, it sounds as though your mind has been made up, but I wish that you would stay.

I may have misunderstood your earlier posting today, but it sounds as though you think the majority of posters agreed with HAL over you with regard to the Facebook issue. I am not sure that you can make that assumption based on this thread. If your argument is with the way that Admin has handled this, perhaps you should discuss with him (and I imagine that you are and quite properly behind the scenes and directly), although I personally don't think he could have acted very differently.

You might be surprised by this message given that you and I have disagreed in the past, but I thought it was worth saying. I think you are a valuable contributor to the forum and will be missed by many should you choose to leave.

[legalbeagle]

Huguenot, don't leave. I haven't read all of the threads that have lead you to this point, so I can't say if I agree with you about HAL or not, but to me that isn't the important thing. What matters is that you feel you should no longer speak up, and it always always makes me sad when I hear that. Please stay and contribute. You can't know what impact you have on a debate - lots of people read and don't post. You also can't change the forum for the better (if that's what you think needs doing) if you don't take part. The forum is interesting because of the different views expressed. If everyone who is a bit different stays away it would be a bland mish mash of middle ground views, and it would die a death.

Please stay and contribute. People won't always agree with you, I haven't always, but you clearly want to participate and you should.

[Keef]

I didn't read the thread in question, so have no opinion, but lots of what you said rang true.

The old skool are barely here anymore, but we cling on in the hope of a return of the glory days. Would be a weaker forum if you pack it in completely.

[Ladymuck]

What Moos and LB have said.

Please don't leave Huguenot...you are a major and valuable contributor to this forum.

I cannot promise never to fisk ever again, nor never to lob tomatoes at you when I believe you are pushing your luck, nor never to slap you when you are blatantly out of order...but I would love you to stay nevertheless because I enjoy (the majority of) your posts and (as someone very dear to me recently said) "sparring" with you on here. x

Edit to say: what Keef said too.

And thrice more, because this issue has upset me and I have fallen out with someone very dear to me over this issue and hence I am currently not quite "with it".

[Ladymuck]

PS:

Couldn't Huguenot and HAL9000 both come on here and (virtually) make up and shake hands? And just accept their differences. Would that be so difficult?

I believe they both contribute massively to this forum, and if either of them left it would be an enormous loss to this fabulous forum.

Am I naive? Probably.

[legalbeagle]

I second that proposal Ladymuck. Come on boys. This place is big enough for both of you. Respect each others wildly different opinions, shake hands, and as you were.

Free bottle of delicious organic Prosecco each if you do.

[Ladymuck]

And I'll chuck in some (orgasmic) Pecan Pies!

*raises glass of Bellendo Prosecco to LB*

Mind you, our Fisking Expert is in Singapore...but I am happy to deliver when I next visit!

[SeanMacGabhann]

My guess is Huguenot likes the support but probably thinks this thread descending into a 4th generation copy of the drawing room rather proves his point

I read (and took part in) the original thread and whilst some people might think I might automatically side with Huguenot, it really is not the case. I just happen to think he is bang on the nail with this one. I found the whole thing genuinely troublesome.

[legalbeagle]

Sean - Not sure what is meant by "4th generation copy of the drawing room"?

In case that was a comment aimed at me, and just to be clear, my offer of Prosecco (which still stands) is a lighthearted but genuine attempt to get these two to make up and to both stay on the forum. I have no allegience to either, I just don't like it when people feel they can't speak out, whatever the reason.

[SeanMacGabhann]

Oh legal I didn't mean you or even that there is anything wrong with a 4th generation copy of the drawing room. Just on the back of the posts made by Huguenot on this thread it might seem ill fitting. Comment away... It's just having read the thread my thoughts were less "I hope everyone makes up" and more "he has a point". Diluting that point seems....counter to what he's saying

[legalbeagle]

Sean - I see what you mean, thanks for the clarification. Perhaps Huguenot will take it that way, perhaps he's stopped reading altogether. But I do hope he will stay, and I hope any dilution of his point is taken in that spirit.

[brum]

I would like to Huge to stay. Diversity of posters is essential to keep the Lounge vibrant.

[annaj]

Now that was a quality flounce Huguenot.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said and entirely understand your decision, but I also agree that you'll be a loss to the forum.

For me, the decision to take a huge step back has been a very good one and I'm much happier as a lurker and occasional poster, but then I was never one of the voices that shaped the forum in the way that you are. Your posts and your outspoken and strident opinions have driven me to despair and fury in the past, but you're one of the posters I'm most curious to meet and I can't imagine the forum without you.

[Ladymuck]

For those who would like to see a photo of both HAL9000 and Huguenot...

...the body language says it all though.

[RosieH]

Sometimes I think there's a tendency towards unbecoming levity when there's a serious point being made. I know LM you're just trying to make things nicer, but I'm not sure it helps.

I briefly caught the thread in question before it disappeared and had been about to comment that as a business, deliberately misrepresenting yourself online (astroturfing, sockpuppeting etc) became a criminal offence a couple of years ago*. And I was very surprised that in HAL's posts about legal matters, he didn't see fit to make that point. It didn't seem that the argument was balanced and that leads me to give some credence to Huguenot's comments about HAL's intentions.

Huguenot, hope you're still reading - I don't want you to go, please don't. I've enjoyed arguing with you and thinking you an utter cunt back in the day, and now that I don't and we've made friends you head for the Sinagaporean hills? Don't do it mate, you'll be too missed.

*edited to say I don't know if that's what was going on - didn't read the whole thread or see the stuff on Facebook

[????]

I've had a fair few runs in with Hugenot but I think his point and sincerity in trying to keep some kind of integrity on the Forum in terms of challenging people attempting to exploit it for commercial (and political) gains is genuine and spot on and I stand behind him on this as I did with that Quack bloke from the BBC.

I think Hal has been a bit of a knob in this case as I have felt he has been before but I would far rather him on this forum than not too. I like the 'different' posters.

I do fear Hugenot is off though and I think i'll miss him and his posts possibly more than any other poster

[Ladymuck]

RosieH Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>...I know LM you're just trying to make

> things nicer, but I'm not sure it helps.

>...that leads me to give some credence to Huguenot's

> comments about HAL's intentions.

And you consider that to comment on HAL9000's intentions in this way to be helpful?

I do not believe, for one second, that HAL9000's intentions were not pure. He merely had an opposing view, felt strongly about it, and expressed himself in his usual manner.

As with Huguenot, HAL9000 makes for a more stimulating and exhilarating forum.

I wouldn't wish for either of them to go.

Sorry for all the edits: still upset.

[HAL9000]

I'm sad to see that Huguenot has chosen to personalise this discussion rather than stick to the issue of free speech.

Admin asked me for advice so I gave an opinion, for what it's worth. Huguenot had every opportunity to present his own case - instead he copped out.

I can't help feeling that his attempt to demonise me is a symptom of some deep-seated insecurity that also underlies the threat to leave. I see this as a form of emotional blackmail, frankly.

Anyway, I think this is a good opportunity to clear the air. If anyone has any issues with my opinions, my posting style, or me, I invite them to get it off their chest: good or bad ? let it all come out. I'm genuinely interested to know how you all feel. Don't worry about hurting my feelings - Huguenot is right about me in that respect (although for the wrong reason).

So, go for it - or forever hold thy peace.

[silverfox]

For what it's worth, I've enjoyed sparring with you both and you've often corrected me and given me pause for thought when I've gone off on one of my spiels.

Why not shake hands? Life's too short etc

[bignumber5]

"If anyone has any issues with my opinions, my posting style, or me, I invite them to get it off their chest: good or bad ? let it all come out."

Ok, I guess I could do that.

The last time I posted on this forum was back in February when your lightening combo of bullying style and banal content had chased off a moderator, and I decided that my life was a better place for not engaging with you anymore. And I don't remember being especially subtle or roundabout in saying so. Yet you have consistently failed to achieve any kind of insight: you ask for feedback, then protest that it is false. And now you appear to have contributed to the departure of another interesting (if occasionally prevocative) forumite.

I really thought that posting this would be rather cathartic, but it hasn't been: it's just recreated the sense of deep irritation that you always manage to fill me with. But you asked. For all the good that it will do, I have answered.