I don't understand "black lives matter"

[TheArtfulDogger]

Don't get me wrong I understand and agree with the sentiment, especially in the US where a black youth has a higher percentage chance of getting shot by the police then a white youth in the same neighbourhood.

I also understand the call for equality here and why the movement is there, however what I don't get is surly by being exclusive in the groups title they are highlighting their colour rather then being inclusive with a title maybe something like "all lives matter" which indicates that there should be no difference between anyone regardless of race, creed or colour.

Just a though but shouldn't we be promoting the overall mix and diversity of the British population and how well it can integrate together delivering the best for all regardless of colour or background ?

[Jeremy]

Surely the point of BLM is to highlight that some people are treated differently and unfairly.

"ALM" seems to me like an ignorant refutation of that.

[Jules-and-Boo]

They now say " All lives matter, but at this moment we're focusing on black lives"

[TheArtfulDogger]

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> They now say " All lives matter, but at this

> moment we're focusing on black lives"

I prefer that as a statement I have to say

[rendelharris]

I entirely understand the sentiment and the anger of the BLM movement, but it does sound a little isolationalist, as if only black lives matter (which is not at all their point, but it sounds like it). Why not "Black Lives Matter Too"?

[DulwichFox]

Well to put it in an Orwellian context...

All lives matter.. But some lives matter more than others..

That's what some people seem to think.

DulwichFox

[Lazero]

How long have you got?

Tough subject to discuss - if you are white in the US or UK, there are things you've (fortunately) likely never experienced. But even within ethnic minority groupings, there are some that suffer disproportionately.

(In my opinion) BLM is attempting to start to address the worst injustices. Other ethnic minorities are supporting these efforts (witness the growing Asian American and Latino movements in support of BLM) rather than putting all efforts into their own movements.

If you have the time and inclination, the Code Switch podcast from NPR is a good one that really looks at race and identity. A couple of recent episodes have covered recent US events.

[Loz]

The percentage of people shot by cops that are male is higher than the percentage who identify as black.

So why isn't it 'Male Lives Matter'?

[WorkingMummy]

Not bashing anyone.

But I totally understand the BLM slogan and would not change it for a moment.

White lives already matter. That is a given. The way the murder, mistreatment of white lives is reported in the media - already comes from a place where white lives matter. There is not huge institutional racism against white people, as there is against black. The context of the slogan is that white people are in the majority, and are the biggest influencer over cultural norms and standards of acceptability. (A woman's hour piece about black women who seriously have to debate with themselves - should I straighten/relax my hair, should I try to change my voice - ahead of a job interview, to look/sound more conventional - more white - spoke so loudly of this.)

That is the context of the slogan. And if you are white (like me - I 100% include myself in this) you spend your time completely unaware of this. Because it doesn't shove itself in your face the whole time. It is not your immediate problem (or mine).

Black lives matter. Black lives matter. We should all be saying it, with no fear at all that it diminishes the value of white lives. It doesn't!

[LondonMix]

Exactly. By saying that black lives matter, the campaign is intentionally highlighting that all lives are not in fact treated equally. The slogan is 100% perfect as it is. 'Black Lives Matter' as a statement is an accusation of unequal treatment which would be significantly diluted if altered.

Anyhow, when groups try to raise aware about specific issues, they always focus on their specific issue. No one ever asks breast cancer awareness groups to acknowledge that all cancers matter (or in fact all disease).

That this keeps coming up regarding the black lives matter movement strikes me as extremely petty and shows a fundamental lack of empathy and understanding.

Somehow, if another group was saying something akin in the face a scandalous mistreatment, like: 'Children's lives matter', or 'Poor Lives matter', or 'the Elderly matter' somehow, I doubt there would be all this 'confusion'...

Jeremy Wrote:

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> Surely the point of BLM is to highlight that some

> people are treated differently and unfairly.

>

> "ALM" seems to me like an ignorant refutation of

> that.

[Otta]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Surely the point of BLM is to highlight that some

> people are treated differently and unfairly.

>

> "ALM" seems to me like an ignorant refutation of

> that.

This

Jules-and-Boo Wrote:

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> They now say " All lives matter, but at this

> moment we're focusing on black lives"

And this

[siousxiesue]

WorkingMummy Wrote:

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> Not bashing anyone.

>

> But I totally understand the BLM slogan and would

> not change it for a moment.

>

> White lives already matter. That is a given. The

> way the murder, mistreatment of white lives is

> reported in the media - already comes from a place

> where white lives matter. There is not huge

> institutional racism against white people, as

> there is against black. The context of the slogan

> is that white people are in the majority, and are

> the biggest influencer over cultural norms and

> standards of acceptability. (A woman's hour piece

> about black women who seriously have to debate

> with themselves - should I straighten/relax my

> hair, should I try to change my voice - ahead of a

> job interview, to look/sound more conventional -

> more white - spoke so loudly of this.)

>

> That is the context of the slogan. And if you are

> white (like me - I 100% include myself in this)

> you spend your time completely unaware of this.

> Because it doesn't shove itself in your face the

> whole time. It is not your immediate problem (or

> mine).

>

> Black lives matter. Black lives matter. We should

> all be saying it, with no fear at all that it

> diminishes the value of white lives. It doesn't!

Couldn't agree more! Thank you WM

[uncleglen]

I thought their actions today were selfish and thoughtless. Life is very different in the UK because we do not have guns around.

If they want to show solidarity they should go to the US and do it- ironically all the gang-banging stuff that we have here is copied from the USA

In the UK there is positive discrimination in the public sector and there has been for many years, especially in the allocation of housing and jobs.

In the US 60% of murders are black on black, and 10% are white on black

As Loz said- these killings are of men in the main- it seems to be that there is still a culture of war-mongering amongst men, as there has been throughout history- AND also throughout history women have been and still are treated like second class citizens and kept poor by the actions of men.

[dirac]

Imagine the BLM vs ALM like this:

We are all at a restaurant and order food.

The waiter comes along and gives everyone some food, except Bill.

Bill says: "Bill deserves food"

Everyone turns around and says: "Everyone deserves food".

Even though the "Everyone deserves food" statement is true, the thing here is, it does nothing to rectify the fact *Bill has no food*.

WorkingMummy Wrote:

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> Black lives matter. Black lives matter. We should

> all be saying it, with no fear at all that it

> diminishes the value of white lives. It doesn't!

[Nigello]

I agree with the sentiment and acknowledge the facts but I still think there is an element of confection, a syntheticness about this UK version of the movement in the US.

[rendelharris]

Offered without prejudice (though I agree with Nigello above that while it is necessary to protest against the undoubted racism in this country, adopting a movement wholesale from the US, where the problems are very different, is not necessarily appropriate), the figures for deaths from police contact (in custody, by shooting, died during pursuit) are well worth perusing to help informed debate (from Inquest):

Deaths of BAME persons from police contact:

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/bame-deaths-in-police-custody

All deaths from police contact:

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/deaths-in-police-custody

Interesting reading and a varied picture, e.g. this year to date, one BAME death out of 21 total, lower than would be statistically expected for a BAME population of around 13%, 2011 9 out of 33, way higher than would be expected.

[mrcee]

https://goo.gl/images/SDM93i

[uncleglen]

I also can't understand how the BLM people in the UK do not understand, or consider, how Mark Duggan and Jean Charles de Menezes etc got themselves in a position where they were killed by the police.

[Loz]

Jean Charles de Menezes??? Really, uncleglen??

I'm not sure you could find a more deserving example of an 'innocent victim'.

[Loz]

LondonMix Wrote:

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> No one ever asks breast cancer awareness groups to acknowledge that all cancers

> matter (or in fact all disease).

But, that works both ways. If someone did say 'all cancers matter', I'm fairly sure they wouldn't be pressed to say that phrase is 'offensive' and apologise for saying it.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/jul/12/cult-singer-ian-astbury-apologises-for-all-lives-matter

[rendelharris]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> I also can't understand how the BLM people in the

> UK do not understand, or consider, how Mark Duggan

> and Jean Charles de Menezes etc got themselves in

> a position where they were killed by the police.

Jean Charles de Menezes "got" himself in a position to be killed by police by getting up and going to work, sitting down in a tube carriage where armed officers jumped on him, pinned him down and shot him seven times in the head at close range.

[midivydale]

Uncle Glen,I have snorted my coffee in disbelief of that post, have you been smoking something?? "How they got in the position of getting themselves killed". That statement alone is exactly why BLACK.LIVES.MATTER

"Got themselves in the position of getting killed"?! Like getting up and going to work?!

For a more eloquent explanation as to why the black lives matter slogan is needed in its existing form,

working mummy's post has nailed it (as always).

[midivydale]

.

[JoeLeg]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> I also can't understand how the BLM people in the

> UK do not understand, or consider, how Mark Duggan

> and Jean Charles de Menezes etc got themselves in

> a position where they were killed by the police.

Are you actually an incompetent troll, or have you been drinking?

Jean Charles de Menezes? By what measure?

1/10, must try harder.

[miga]

Nigello Wrote:

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> I agree with the sentiment and acknowledge the

> facts but I still think there is an element of

> confection, a syntheticness about this UK version

> of the movement in the US.

I guess the local version would be "Black youths deserve not to be singled out for stop-and-search, given that so few arrests are made following these and it creates ill feeling in the community" but it's not as snappy.

On a more serious note, all this stuff makes me grateful to be living in this state where the police don't typically behave like overbearing neanderthals and the gangs are thankfully still just a soft version of their Yank inspirations.