Is breast feeding creepy??

[Fuschia]

She can do what she likes with her own body (though I feel a bit sorry for her child!) but that's a very different thing to using her position as the deputy editor of a parenting magazine to peddle inaccuracies about breastfeeding... Keef it's a very funny world you live in if you truly take that article to be putting across a positive and accurate view!

[Keef]

No need to get personal. I live in the same world as you, I just think I'm more flexible about it. I never said it was positive by the way, just not setting out to be negative. Why be so black & white about things? Sometimes there is no need to fight for a cause when there is no enemy, just a different point of view.

[Keef]

Just posted THIS THREAD in the Lounge, just as a matter of interest, not meant to start an rucks!

[emc]

Agree with Gwod - I'm a journo too and think she has created a magnificent bit of PR for the mag...have got journo friends who have written similar inflammatory articles which are based largely on truth but beefed up hugely to make a good read...so what? And a little part of me gets so very sick and tired of the 'breast is best brigade' that I'm glad something like this has come out. I hated breastfeeding, tried it for eight weeks - it didn't hurt, I just couldn't do it,nothing came...but the guilt I was made to feel was ridiculous. And as for health benefits I reckon my daughter was the least sickly out of all her contemporaries, is in rude health now, incredibly intelligent and we have a great bond.

[expat]

it is surely the individuals choice. IMHO

[ratty]

expat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> it is surely the individuals choice. IMHO

Not in East Dulwich sadly!

[womanofdulwich]

I think the whole womens bodies being sexy/ having babies is never openly discussed. I am sure I am not the only person to think her body is not sexy since giving birth/ breastfeeding? Or at least in a different way.

Never mentioned once at NCT or hospital baby lessons. The only thing a nurse/doctor might say 5 hours after giving birth is

what method of contraception will you use? Whilst I do not share her views I think it is good to open the debate up .

[prdarling]

I think finding your body less sexy post-childbirth/breastfeeding is one thing which many people, including myself can relate to but what this woman is saying is that she cannot feel comfortable giving her breast to her baby to feed from as her breasts are too intrinsically linked to her sexual activity.

I just find this bizarre. Sex is one thing, breastfeeding a baby is another and not being able to separate the two is,in my opinion, a bit unusual.

There seem to be 2 discussions going on...breast v bottle and all the associated prejudices and then this belief that her breasts are the domain of her lover and therefore not to be accessed by a baby.

This is a very peculiar stance for the dep editor of a leading parenting magazine to take

[The Nappy Lady]

OK, no doubt I'll live to regret this.....

I totally agree EVERY woman has the right to choose, and I think magazines etc. should be supportive / offer help and advice on both breast and bottle feeding. I breast fed because I could, and it was, other than a few painful days at the very start, very easy - actually I find it a total pain once they get to 6 months old and I have to actually cook for them!

However, I do find her article quite strange, and the choice of the word creepy (even in the context of her own personal feelings quite ....hmmm not offensive, that is too strong, but just wrong as a word to be used alongside something nature designed us to do.....). Maybe it is because I grew up on a small holding seeing horses, goats, sheep etc. all feeding from their mothers, it seems totally normal and natural to me. Yes it is her opinion BUT.....

If a breast feeding Mum started writing about how she finds the sight of a baby with a bottle of formula creepy (just her opinion) can you imagine the upset that would cause. That is why I have a big issue with this particular statement in the article.

She mentions someone in a park being rude to her about giving her baby a bottle - this is the first time I have ever heard of such a thing (and equally as a breast feeding Mum I've never been given any abuse by anyone). I know stuff like this does happen (MIND shop etc), but does it truly happen so much that mothers who choose to bottle feed are left with this huge guilt complex? Or is it simply that in trying to give new Mum's all the help and support they can to breast feed in the early days when it IS hard that HVs etc can come over as a bit over zealous? I suspect there is a lot of unnecessary guilt that is mostly in a mothers head - there is a thread on here at the moment about people feeling guilty about what babies are being put to bed wearing in the heat......are we not, as parents (Mum's more than Dad's maybe) programmed to feel guilty about most of the choices we make? The whole bottle feeding guilt is just part of that, and maybe some then become over protective about their decision - which is to be honest how her article comes across to me.

I would not dream of asking a mother why she is giving a baby a bottle because it might sound like I was criticising, or because there may be good reasons, and it could be very upsetting to the Mum. I know plenty of Mothers who had to bottle feed, for various reasons, and I know it is not always an easy decision. I am thankful that science means even those babies can be raised to be healthy by their own parents.

Her body, her right to choose yes, but if her MAIN reason is that she doesn't want to end up with saggy boobs I find that rather selfish and self/image obsessed. Frankly I'm amazed she even dared to get pregnant on that basis. Yes I am sad my body isn't what it once was, but in my opinion it was a sacrifice well worth making in order to have my children (as was not drinking more than a couple of glasses of wine at a time for a couple of years with each of them. If you dont breast feed because of religious beliefs, because you tried and failed, because you are too shy to get your breasts out in public or returning to work, or a zillion other reasons then fair enough, but in order to keep your figure and be able to get drunk?? Does no one else find this a bit shallow? I find that quite a sad statement of the world we are living in, where so much emphasis is put upon looks (and this coming from a girl who works hard to try to look good despite 2 children and the ravages of hitting 40!!). Still her choice, but can't say I am feeling much affinity with this woman. I firmly believe breast is best, much of it based on what I was told by the SCBU at Kings when I was a breast milk donor for the premature babies. If there is a clear difference in the way the babies who are given human milk do then surely this is hard evidence of the benefits of human milk? Because of this in an ideal world I'd love to think all babies are breast feed at least for the first few weeks, but hey, life isn't always that simple, and there are many worse things in life than giving a baby a bottle of formula if that is what you end up doing. As said before, let's be glad we (in this country) have another option.

Incidentally, what a load of tosh about hiding the sterliser before the HV visits, then saying the bottle is so she can express and let hubby feed the baby.....errr hello.....you still need to sterlise expressing and bottle feeding gear in those circumstances. OK, a minor point, but in her position on a baby magazine does she not know this?

Maybe she wrote the article to cause a big stir as others have said, if not then I think it could have been worded better. Of course she can do what she likes, and an article about what it is like to make the informed decision to bottle feed from day 1 could be an interesting read if (in my opinion) it had been written in a very different way*

* Before posting this I sat and considered, and I guess the issue here is that she has given her reasons for choosing to bottle feed (relevant to the article) and has been (I imagine) honest about them....which I guess I have to respect. My issue with the article is that her reasons don't sit well with me, on either the 'creepy' front or the 'body image & drinking' front. So, I think what I feel is that it is a shame that this article couldn't at least have been published alongside some other articles - some by mothers who have bottle fed for other reasons, and maybe even a couple from breast feeding Mums giving their reasons for choosing that route. Then it would be a balanced and fair view.

In many ways I think her article does way more harm than good, alienating breast feeding Mums, upsetting bottle feeding Mum's who have had to go down that route for many other reasons (but now feel like people will assume they are doing it for the same reasons as her and judging them badly for that).

Ah, she just needs to get on with doing it, but if I was her I don't think I would be shouting my reasons from the roof tops.

So Keef - for me no issue with anyone's right to choose, but I do have some issues with that individual's reasons, and I know that is on a very personal level. However, I feel given her position a more balanced article could have been published, and one that would have been far more positive and helpful to ALL parents.

Molly

Molly

[Fuschia]

Very good post Molly.

[Pecanpie]

Maybe the Sun just wanted to stir up some publicity, it seems to have worked.

[Keef]

Indeed, a fine, and fair post.

Only point I'd disagree with is

If a breast feeding Mum started writing about how she finds the sight of a baby with a bottle of formula creepy (just her opinion) can you imagine the upset that would cause. That is why I have a big issue with this particular statement in the article.

Which I don't think is a valid comparison, as she never said she finds the sight of a baby on someone's breast crepy. Just that she finds a baby on HER breast creepy.

Anyway, enough, fine post Molly, considered, and fair.

[GinaG3]

Agreed Fuschia, very good post Molly.

Of course, every mother has the right to chose how they feed their child, I don't believe bottle feeding makes a parent any worse than breastfeeding. I never hear people debating this issue, ever.

The sad truth is that this country is obsessed with body image and alcohol, this is britain today! Through younger generations this is only getting worse. We have 12 year olds in this country that have already decided 'breast implants' are a dead cert by the time they are 20. I myself am only 20, I had my daughter when I was 18. I am one of these generations! I took the option to breastfeed, regardless of my age. Bodily image is massively important to me and my peers. For most people my age, if you don't look like a page 3 girl, you feel no-one will be attracted to you. I find this so damaging, and for this reason cannot stand anything of sexual nature in public, whether it be magazines for sale in the shop, or women parading on a TV screen.

The 'stereotypical' teenage mother in britain, have a child for an accessory, wouldn't dare breastfeed for risk of sagging, still want their life (being able to drink, party on weekends etc), now I don't like all this stereotyping business but through these generation is this issue not going to get worse? More people 10 years down the line opting out of breastfeeding for such reasons? People may read this thinking the stereotype is not correct, so out of say 10 friend I know who have children, including myself 2 breastfed, the other 8 would rather have been out clubbing, getting very drunk and just treating their own parents as babysitters, if asked why did you chose to bottle feed you will generally not hear an answer, but with peers the reasons come down to, bodily image, alcohol and sleep.

By the way, some people may find this interesting.. 'Many women worry about breastfeeding adversely affecting the shape and size of their breasts. Though doctors have hypothesized all along that it is pregnancy that changes women’s breasts and not breastfeeding, recent research backs up this claim. A group of plastic surgeons that perform breast lifts and breast augmentations studied the connection between sagginess and breastfeeding. They found no correlation. They did find a correlation between the number of times a woman had been pregnant and how saggy her breasts were. They also found that a history of smoking contributed to sagginess, which they attributed to the negative effect that smoking has on elastin, a protein in skin, which keeps it looking youthful and helps support the breast.'

Regardless of all this, I chose to breastfeed my child, and feel very proud to still be doing so at 17 months. I feel enormous pressure to look good, but I chose to have my child and when I did this I also chose to give up my life of clubbing and drinking, and my own vanity to care for my child. The benefits of breastfeeding for both me and my child far out weigh the problems I will face in life if my breasts drop by a tiny margin. My partner loves the fact I breastfeed, he is the same age as me and has no problem with it whatsoever. Apparently this makes me and my body more attractive too :) - BONUS?! Ha.

[citizenED]

The idea of a woman finding her baby feeding at her breast being "creepy" is odd. Thinking of someone else's baby feeding at your breat might be creepy, or your baby being fed by someone else, sure, but your own baby? I don't think it is an honest comment anyway. The word was chosen for maximum effect and it has worked.

[Ruth_Baldock]

I don't think breastfeeding is creepy, but I do think calling breasts 'fun bags' is creepy...

[Belle]

GinaG3 Wrote:

>

> Of course, every mother has the right to chose how

> they feed their child, I don't believe bottle

> feeding makes a parent any worse than

> breastfeeding. I never hear people debating this

> issue, ever.

I've found people do debate this issue. I try to avoid seeing it as it sets me off a bit but online there is much debate or even diatribe on this. There are extremists on both sides who pop up on Facebook, Twitter and the blogosphere generally. Of course there are also plenty of people who are balanced - I've seen posts by 'lactivists' who are very fair and unjudgemental about bottle feeding and vice versa.

[Moos]

I wouldn't have chosen the word creepy but I do remember finding the idea of breastfeeding a baby myself very peculiar while I was pregnant and thinking about doing it (how easy I thought it would be, ha!). The concept of another person drinking from your body is the most natural thing in the world, but before I'd done it I found it really hard to imagine. Loved it once I finally got the hang of it - my favourite feed was always the pre-bedtime feed. With supper, bath and playing done, we would flop down in a chair together and I would just go Ahhhhhhh and relaaaaaax. Very snuggly and close, heaven.

Back on topic, I had a friend who while pregnant couldn't get the Alien movies out of her mind... Getting used to the idea that another creature is living inside her and feeling it moving about kind of freaked her out, and it does take a bit of getting used to!

Obviously not everyone feels this way (maybe my friend and I are just warped...) and in cultures where women lead more domestic and family-centred lives it's probably unheard of. But there you are.

[GinaG3]

I meant in general day to day life. Online yes, this happens left right and center, its wrong but it will always happen. Its something that is completely divided, you have 2 choices you have to pick one or the other. Mothers should not be made to feel guilty for there choice, and this does include people being made to feel guilty for breastfeeding too, even my HV did this to me!

I am pro breastfeeding (I am also a trained peer counsellor) but wouldn't ever judge a bottle feeding mother. I think there is a lot of mothers who do bottle feed out there that would probably be very surprised at how enjoyable the experience can be, but there is always a lot who may well find it the total opposite.

Belle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> GinaG3 Wrote:

>

> >

> > Of course, every mother has the right to chose

> how

> > they feed their child, I don't believe bottle

> > feeding makes a parent any worse than

> > breastfeeding. I never hear people debating

> this

> > issue, ever.

>

> I've found people do debate this issue. I try to

> avoid seeing it as it sets me off a bit but online

> there is much debate or even diatribe on this.

> There are extremists on both sides who pop up on

> Facebook, Twitter and the blogosphere generally.

> Of course there are also plenty of people who are

> balanced - I've seen posts by 'lactivists' who are

> very fair and unjudgemental about bottle feeding

> and vice versa.

[Smiler]

Some of the magazine's main advertisers are probably companies selling formula; and a lot of its readers will be bottle-feeding mums or intending to bottle-feed (given the relatively low proportion of b/feeding). By being provocative, the author has generated publicity for the magazine that will probably be well-received by the companies / interest groups.

[new mother]

To what age do you think bfeeding is normal?

To me, it's normal to want to bf a baby and not normal to bf a 10 year old.

I don't know where the line comes though...

[Dulwich Born And Bred]

I think WHO recommends up to the age of 2, though I personally think once they are fully weaned ( from one onwards when they are having three meals a day, snacks and can have cow's milk morning and night time) then they don't really need to be breast fed but that is a personal thing.

[citizenED]

The original article made me sad - and the response, particularly this refrain that it is the woman's choice makes me sadder. Not, of course that I wouldn't defend the right of women to make choices about what they do with their bodies, but simply that it has got to this stage; that a woman would choose not to taint what she sees as her sexualised self by doing the natural thing of breastfeeding their baby. Sure, if, for one reason or another, a mother cannot breastfeed, then there is always formula milk. But in the first instance, surely, it has to be breastfeeding.

One reason that the pro-breast-feeding lobby get so vociferous as they argue their case is that they have pretty much lost the battle. Breast-feeding rates in this country are so low. The original article is less of a call to arms for women to assert their right to to with their bodies what they will and more a further kick in the teeth for the pro-breastfeeding fratenity.

So it brings up the question of choice. Is it really an even choice between breast-feeding and formula-feeding? Formula is backed by big businesses with big advertising budgets. There is no money in breastfeeding. But more worrying is the underlying body-politics that dominate the press's coverage of women. The Sun, for example, promotes the Page 3 image of the female. When do they ever promote the beautiful image of a breastfeeding mother? The OA is just part of this; the editor of a mum and baby magazine supports the option to be a formula feeding mum because she doesn't want saggy breasts and wants glass of vino. Shame.

[Keef]

Well that is a much wider issue of culture.

Co-sleeping / baby in cot ASAP

Controlled crying or not

Baby in sling / baby left in buggy whilst you sip your latte.

Breast feeding / Bottle feeding

Surely all of these are direct results of our culture?

I'll be the first to argue that the culture we live in is rubbish, and although having kids is really popular, we don't really like them getting in the way too much. That said, can we have it both ways? If you are supportive of a woman's right to do whatever she wants with her self (within the law), then it's hard to condemn her for her parenting decisions.

I agree, it's sad.

[The Nappy Lady]

I always find it really sad that many of the most cash strapped families are bottle feeding and using disposable nappies. There is a heck of a lot to be saved by cutting out those two things, and a zillion other things the money could be spent on that would benefit the entire family.

Culturally, some groups see it as a status symbol to be 'able to afford disposables' I wonder if it is the same with bottle feeding?

M

[citizenED]

I'm sure that this is the case Molly - and sadly the pro-breastfeeding lobby do themselves no favours by promoting breastfeeding with images of real women from around the world engaged in feeding their babies. I'm no advertising exec. by I think they would do better by getting a sexy supermodel to head their campaigns.