Football Focus

[Annasfield]

Ladygooner Wrote:

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> Keef/Annasfield - can I recommend you listen again

> to Radio 2 programme "You'll Never Walk Alone" -

> on last night at 11.30pm. Did you know the song

> originally came from the musical "Carousel"?

Thanks Ladygooner - I listened to it last night. Was quite interesting. Yep, originated from Carousel and has gone from there really. Nothing like standing on the Kop with the whole of Anfield singing YNWA. Took my Dad to Anfield for the first time last season and he had tears in his eyes.

[SimonM]

I have never quite understood how or why YNWA became the Liverpool anthem. Did it result from Gerry & The Pacemakers no. 1 hit in the 60's or were G & TP themselves just paying their own tribute to their home team?

[Annasfield]

The used to play the top 10 before kick off on a Saturday afternoon. If you look on youtube and search "Kop - Panorama", you'll find a clip of them singing Beatles songs.

When YNWA alone was number one, the whole crowd joined in and because it was number one, it was the last song to be played before the players came out of the tunnel. It just stuck and has been sung ever since.

Quite difficult to explain, but I have lived in various places all over the country and been to several grounds and sat with the home fans. I have never experienced passion like I have seen/felt at Anfield when surrounded by fellow supporters. I know that we harp on about our history and pedigree, but it's not just about winning trophies, it's more like a religion up there and things like YNWA make it so special.

Admittedly I am extremely biased, but it is simply quite spine tingling to hear it in full voice at Anfield and never fails to move me when it's sung. One of it's biggest nights was at half time that night in Istanbul. Apparently the players could hear the travelling Kopites singing from inside the changing rooms and Rafa told them to listen to the passion from the fans and to go out and play for them. We all know what happened next. :)-D

It's worth listening to the documentary on the listen again feature as it traces the history of the song in it's entirety. Quite moving too, particularly when they play the rendition that was sang at the Hillsborough service.

[Keef]

Anna, mate, you are horrifically biased! Celtic fans would argue a fair bit of passion with that song. I have been to an Everton fan's wedding, and they walked out to z-cars (shudder), and Newcastle fans are mega passionate.

I love the pool, but at times up there I used to think the crowd could be a bit dull... I think they just get up for the big games.

Soz mate, luv ya, and love the pool, but that last post just had some red tinted glasses going on ;-)

[Annasfield]

I see that Chelsea have confirmed their new manager.

[Annasfield]

Yes Keef, I am biased but I am basing it on MY experience.

Where do you think Celtic get YNWA from? Sadly the crowd at Anfield can be a bit flat at times, but it's probably because alot of the people who manage to get their hands on tickets are "soccer tourists" who have no comprehension about the history of the songs let alone know the words. Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that they support the club and they're very welcome. I meant proper Scousers for whom football is in their blood - not people who have jumped on the bandwagon because of historic success. Thats what I mean about passion.

It's not just about match day and I don't think you got my point.

[Keef]

Perhaps not.

[Sandperson]

The Streford End on a wednesday night against Bayer Leverkusen 2002 Champions League Semi-final. 2-2 draw. Great game and not a single person sat down or stopped singing for the entire game.

Highbury, away end, League Cup a couple of years ago. United put out some youngsters and they got humped 4-0. Not a single person sat down and we didn't stop singing.

I am biased but they were two of the best games and best crowds and not a win between them!

[ratty]

Just thought I would pop in to remind you all of this......

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44666000/jpg/_44666035_cup_av512.jpg

[Annasfield]

ratty Wrote:

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> Just thought I would pop in to remind you all of

> this......

>

> http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44666000/jpg

> /_44666035_cup_av512.jpg

Nice one Ratty :)-D

How do you reckon you'll get on in Europe next season? Will you go to any away games?

[spadetownboy]

did a bird crap on james,s hair, because somethings amusing bobby.

[ratty]

Bobby was being tickled by a rogue Bluebird just underneath his special area!

I am skinter than a skint thing due to 9 month old son and non working wife, however, my lovely mum offered to pay for me to go to an away in Europe as a special pressie (she is just as chuffed as me about the win having to comfort me for the last 30 odd years about our lack of success).

I best make it an early game though as I doubt we will be in it for long. Not sure on whether we will get a seed at the moment - it looks not, so we could start by playing AC Milan! :O

[Annasfield]

Not sure if anyone else saw Wright's comments about Ronaldo's behaviour. I do think he has a point.

[monica]

m very suspicious i posted about my sad loss with my bella italia and the post has gone??? mmmm where is it? me thinks the administrator and his clik have deleted it!!!!

[SimonM]

Anna, I don't think your account of YNWA and Liverpool is exceptionally biased actually. I do remember in the 60's quite a few football crowds sang it around the time of the Pacemakers' hit, but the Liverpool crowd stuck with it and without a doubt made it their own - at least as far as English football was concerned. The story of the "Top Ten" being played before kick-off at Anfield was new to me though.

As for the song's own history, I do have "Carousel" on DVD :)) and the song was always a bit of a spine-tingler, so chuck in a good dollop of crucial football match emotion as well and the effect must be pretty inspirational. Gerry Marsden's original version though remains truly execrable B)

[Ted Max]

Monica - re: the disappearing bella Italia post. I think you are in the wrong thread. Try Euro 2008.

[atila the gooner]

Annasfield Wrote:

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> Not sure if anyone else saw Wright's comments

> about Ronaldo's behaviour. I do think he has a

> point.

Wrighty is a legend and his comments are spot on. Ronaldo should hang his head in shame. Having said that he is not the first, and will certainly not be the last player that has behaved despicably having forgotten how the club he is trying to leave has stood by him for many years. Loyalty doesn't exist in football, so we really shouldn't be surprised when players act this way, no matter who they play for.

[Sandperson]

atila the gooner Wrote:

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> Annasfield Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Not sure if anyone else saw Wright's comments

> > about Ronaldo's behaviour. I do think he has a

> > point.

>

> Wrighty is a legend and his comments are spot on.

> Ronaldo should hang his head in shame. Having said

> that he is not the first, and will certainly not

> be the last player that has behaved despicably

> having forgotten how the club he is trying to

> leave has stood by him for many years. Loyalty

> doesn't exist in football, so we really shouldn't

> be surprised when players act this way, no matter

> who they play for.

I can't help but agree. You NEVER hear stuff like this from players (at Man Utd) like Rooney, Giggs, Scholes etc. It's the same for other clubs, there are certain players who have some respect for the club and the fans and there are others who are just greedy. If the comments I have heard attributed to Ronaldo - I just love playing in white - after the Portugal game the other day he can go f*** himself. We don't need him and as AtG has said he isn't bigger than the club. Let him go rot in Spain.

[Ted Max]

When Rooney was at Everton did he have respect for the club and the fans, or was he just greedy?

Ronaldo's a skilled professional who can choose to work where he wants.

Sure Man Utd stood by him when he was having difficulties - but they have a duty of care as an employer, and also stood to gain by doing so - to the tune of one Premiership title and a CL title. Does Ronaldo owe them his whole future for that, when is the debt judged to be paid off?

So, if he fancies playing for a new club - why the venom?

[Sandperson]

I think Rooney was young and misguided. Bearing in mind he was 18 or 19 when he signed for United and his comments about being 'Blue forever' etc were made when he was 16 or 17 and was an example of him trying to do the right thing by his club.

You are right Ted, Ronaldo can work where he likes but as we both know football is more than about contracts and a 'job'. The venom is because like a lot of players I think he's an ungrateful little scrote and I am entitled to my opinion. You could say that he wouldn't be where he is today without Man Utd and that he wouldn't be in the position to demand such a high wage or a place in a top club. Who's to say he wouldn't have slipped through the net and ended up playing at Sporting for the rest of his career. We looked after him when he was a 'show pony', we looked after him after the World Cup incident when he 'could never possibly play in this country again' and we looked after him when his father died, oh and the allegations of rape. As I said, if he wants to move, let him, but don't expect me and other United fans to not be venomous towards him.

[Ted Max]

How old was Rooney when he allowed his ghost writer to make libellous comments about his former manager, in his name?

As I said - in times of difficulties the club stood by Ronaldo - and in doing so they helped create, and then reaped the benefit of, a great player for a couple of years. Arguably he won you the title and CL this year.

I repeat - when is the debt paid?

The vast majority of clubs see their best players, who they have nurtured, developed, stood by, etc etc move on to bigger clubs. That is what happens, and unless the deed is done in the most underhand of manners, or with the poorest of timing, that is understood to be part of the deal. Where did Rio, Carrick, Hargreaves, Rooney, and so on, all come from? Are they all ungrateful scrotes? No - they saw the opportunity to better themselves and took it. Ronaldo may see the same.

Perhaps given Man Utd's position at the top of the market, you're not so used to it happening to the club you support. But for most fans it's a normal part of life, and usually one they can accept as part of the process.

As for this:

as we both know football is more than about contracts and a 'job'

I actually disagree. To most of the professional athletes that play the game, it is rarely about more than that.

[Annasfield]

It's not the fact that they move on, it's the way they conduct themselves when doing so.

Ronaldo is behaving like a tosser.

[Sandperson]

Again, I'm guessing the book was a mistake, he's not the sharpest tool in the box and I would say it was down to his personal advisors (I'm sure that the club wouldn't have been involved) and the writer to protect him to some extent.

I repeat, 'Ronaldo can work where he likes' and 'if he wants to move, let him'. He isn't bigger than the club so if he wants to leave that's his choice but it will still upset fans. As I have stated on the forum before I am a life long Man Utd fan. Just because the club I support is successful and rich (for the time being) doesn't mean I feel any less passion or pain when they win or lose and when we lose world class players. I don't suppose Anna would have been pleased if Gerrard had gone to Chelsea or Arsenal fans are happy that Adebayor might want to leave their club. As for Rio and carrick etc. then if I was Leeds fan or an Everton fan then I'd probably think they were ungrateful scrotes too.

Thank you for patronising me though. You must see football in a totally different light to me (and Bill Shankly) obviously and your final statement makes me very sad. Who do you follow yourself?

[Annasfield]

I also don't think that Ronaldo sees this as an opportunity to better himself. I imagine he is motivated by money and his vanity. It's all about him and he doesn't care who's toes he stamps on in getting what he wants.

I just hope he goes to Real Madrid and fails. Like a lot of other Premiership players who can't seem to play well in La Liga. Would rather United don't get ?70 mill to spend though.

[Ted Max]

Really, really wasn't trying to patronise. (Tell me how I did so?) I aplogise if that's how it sounded. Just trying to give a different view, is all.

My team is (and it's a long distance relationship as I haven't lived near Edinburgh for 15 years) Hibs.

Just because the club I support is successful and rich (for the time being) doesn't mean I feel any less passion or pain when they win or lose and when we lose world class players.

I didn't say you did. At all.

As for my "final statement". I should have said - I agree that football should be, and often is, about more than money and contracts. But, I happen to think for many that play the game professionally, it isn't.