Children On Bus Seats

[KidKruger]

how about kids = the little ones who we wouldn't want to see hurt for just trying to stand on a bus because they can't find a lap or a seat.

of course, this (outside kids) extends to anyone we would consider in that position be they elderly, pregnant, laden with shopping bags and clearly struggling, infirm, I think it's normally obvious looking down a bus who's struggling.

[Keef]

I too am with KidKruger.

[cate]

I'm not talking about small children. They can and should go on laps if the bus is crowded. Like Narnia said - how do you define kids. Up to 16 or 18 ? What age is the free bus travel up to? 16?

[KidKruger]

I'm not convinced that having a definition of 'kid', in terms of age or otherwise is really going to help here.

You're either entitled to travel on the bus or you're not.

The only 'pecking order' I think is valid is the one I outlined above about who is able to stand comfortably and who is not.

For example, if someone felt they really need to sit down and decided to ask someone to spare their seat, I'm sure they could approach the fittest / most able-bodied person within a reasonable distance. That's the same packing order but in reverse isn't it.

So if you felt that the 16-18 year old looked the best able to stand you could ask them for their seat and explain your case, politely, as to why you need the seat more than them.

I'm sure that if asked politely and for good reason most passengers would stand for you.

[Twirly]

KidKruger - I would be very careful about judging by appearances. It's not always obvious who is best able to stand - you can't see the bad back or the sprained ankle (I've suffered from both myself, and felt guilty about sitting down on a crowded bus, as I usually give up my seat to someone elderly, pregnant or otherwise incapacitated).

I have never asked for a seat, even when on occasion I could really have done with one. I think I worry to much about the response that I might get, particularly if it?s aggressive.

[KidKruger]

Of course it's not categorically OBVIOUS who is best able to stand (which is why I said 'normally obvious' ie. in a fair wind under average conditions, looking around for obvious signs etc etc), but without asking everyone on the bus you have to start somewhere and make some sort of judgement (assuming you have any interest at all in the first place).

There's nothing to be 'careful' about in this respect IMO, of course you may not know exactly in the correct order who are the 10 most worthy cases in the perfectly accurate and correct order of ranking, but what's the alternative - do nothing ?

Well there are 3 people who look more needy than me but there could be another 2 or 3 who are worse off, but I just can't tell, oh bugger it - it's not obvious exactly who wins so I won't bother.

Oh wait - that's the outcome that happens already.

There's no one-size fits all perfect solution here and no-one ever said there will be, that's obvious (no pun intended).

[cate]

What about just showing and teaching your kids good old fashioned good manners for someone who is older than you, and has likely been working and commuting for longer than you have been on the earth? There are far more older kids on the buses nowadays at all hours due to the free passes available.

[KidKruger]

Of course, but until that's in place (I don't know when that's due...) what - do nothing ?

Until the kids are 'trained' as suggested by cate do we just wait, wait, wait.... then suddenly it will all become better because the kids are now polite and respectful of the more deserving adults (who may well have spent all day sat at a desk BTW, just like the kids).

The kids aren't in a position to go out working and commute to/from work so does that mean they should never sit down on a bus if there is an adult standing ?

I'm sensing a we're more worthy than them vibe here..

[DaveR]

"What about just showing and teaching your kids good old fashioned good manners for someone who is older than you, and has likely been working and commuting for longer than you have been on the earth? There are far more older kids on the buses nowadays at all hours due to the free passes available."

I'm afraid I think this is bullsh!t. I don't expect a 16 year old to give up their seat on the bus for me. I'm more than twice their age but I'm perfectly capable of standing. However I would give up my seat for a young child on exactly the same basis as I would an older or disabled person i.e. I agree with KidKruger. I do think that kids up to 4 or 5 should sit on laps etc. if there are no seats available and there is someone who needs one, but again I wouldn't class myself or another able-bodied adult as 'in need'.

[candj]

Maybe it's a cultural thing as I've been on buses outside of the UK where able bodied people have offered their seats to my children (ages 3 and almost 6). I allow my 3 year old to sit down but my almost 6 year old loves standing.

I too agree with you KidKruger.

[ianr]

From the age of 11, not to have offered my seat in a bus or train, probably accompanying it by a touch of the peak of my cap, would I think probably have been deemed a school offence. Even if not, it felt like it.

I'm not sure how much such policy worked to actually generate or reinforce one's inner samaritan, but it did inculcate the habit, and the feeling that there were people more needy or deserving than ourselves (in this case apparently the entire set of adults). But TBH I don't recollect resenting it or feeling it unjustified. I was young and fit. I could cycle a mile to the station, stand in crowded trains, then walk another mile to the school, without any difficulty.

[Moos]

A good discussion, and I agree with the points that KidKruger is making.

However, I think the original question was whether a child small enough to fit on its parent's lap (let's say, up to the age of 4?) ought to be asked to do so when the bus is full. And to me the answer is yes, as it simply allows for more space. Of course there are exceptions one can think of (for example a heavily pregnant mother often hasn't got much lap to offer) but they should be fairly obvious.

I force my 3 year old to sit on my lap on crowded buses, but he does it with embarrassingly ill grace, I'm afraid to say.

[ImpetuousVrouw]

I think the transition from a child in need of a seat and one big enough to give up their seat was quite a smooth one for my kids. I hadn't really thought of it, but I think that by the time they got to 10 or 11, I would expect them to know they should stand if someone more needy didn't have a seat. I think that because it's something I do, they didn't need it explaining to them when they got big enough to be less needy.

[woofmarkthedog]

cate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm not talking about small children. They can

> and should go on laps if the bus is crowded. Like

> Narnia said - how do you define kids. Up to 16 or

> 18 ? What age is the free bus travel up to? 16?

--------------------------------

I disagree

Children sitting on laps is dangerous , they should be in a buggy if young enough or on a seat of their own. Just as in a car, children are at risk of being crushed by the adult in the event of an impact. In a seat of their own the risk is lessened. I do use the rear facing seats at the back of the bus as these are safer

Fit adults are able to stand for others, when required

W**F

[The Minkey]

Although I've seen many examples of people failing to offer up seats to others who were quite clearly in need, I'm still grieved each and every time it happens, particularly when it's the disabled seats which are being occupied by adult plus shopping bags. Astonishing. Having said that, when I ripped a calf muscle several years ago and was on crutches, I was really pleasantly surprised by the variety of people who did offer up their seat for me.

[waynetta]

FFS you lot really do bang on about a load of sh1te

[RosieH]

Whereas taking the piss out of soldiers in a war zone / those with mental health issues is so edifying...

[waynetta]

Yeah whatever

[Narnia]

waynetta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> FFS you lot really do bang on about a load of

> sh1te

You're the expert!

[waynetta]

Yawn

[cate]

woofmarkthedog Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> cate Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I'm not talking about small children. They can

> > and should go on laps if the bus is crowded.

> Like

> > Narnia said - how do you define kids. Up to 16

> or

> > 18 ? What age is the free bus travel up to?

> 16?

> --------------------------------

> I disagree

>

> Children sitting on laps is dangerous , they

> should be in a buggy if young enough or on a seat

> of their own. Just as in a car, children are at

> risk of being crushed by the adult in the event of

> an impact. In a seat of their own the risk is

> lessened. I do use the rear facing seats at the

> back of the bus as these are safer

>

> Fit adults are able to stand for others, when

> required

>

>

> W**F

There aren't any seat belts in the those seats either so I fail to see why they are safer.

[woofmarkthedog]

Coz..

The danger for a child seated on an adult lap is from crushing ( by said adult) & rear facing seats are safer for children because they don't get launched forwards in the event of a collision

W**F

[Pearson]

TBH i can't bothered to read the whole thread, most of it seem quite petty.

As far as the Op is concerned, surely as paying customers everyone has an

equal right to a seat?

Only good manner apply if others appear to be in more need but that's not a rule!

[cate]

cate Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> woofmarkthedog Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > cate Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > I'm not talking about small children. They

> can

> > > and should go on laps if the bus is crowded.

> > Like

> > > Narnia said - how do you define kids. Up to

> 16

> > or

> > > 18 ? What age is the free bus travel up to?

> > 16?

> > --------------------------------

> > I disagree

> >

> > Children sitting on laps is dangerous , they

> > should be in a buggy if young enough or on a

> seat

> > of their own. Just as in a car, children are at

> > risk of being crushed by the adult in the event

> of

> > an impact. In a seat of their own the risk is

> > lessened. I do use the rear facing seats at the

> > back of the bus as these are safer

> >

> > Fit adults are able to stand for others, when

> > required

> >

> >

> > W**F

>

>

> There aren't any seat belts in the those seats

> either so I fail to see why they are safer.

But the people sitting opposite will be launched at those sitting in the rear facing seats.

[Pearson]

LOL,

It's a bus.. Do you really want to talk us all into having seat belts/ no standing?

It would end up like a plane with safety briefings before each stop?

Bring back the dangers of the route master i say :)

I think some people need a dose of HTFU!