Is Bellenden Rd not one-way for cyclists?

[binary_star]

Just wondering if this stretch of Bellenden Rd...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Holly+Grove&daddr=Bellenden+Rd&hl=en&geocode=FQBdEQMdAeP-_w%3BFaJjEQMdbOP-_w&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=16&sll=51.469141,-0.07272&sspn=0.006376,0.01929&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=51.470852,-0.07228&spn=0.003188,0.009645&z=17

...is not one-way for cycles? I often see cyclists riding the 'wrong' way up this street but I always assumed it was one way for all vehicles. Recently though (last couple of days or so) new cycle logos have been painted along the road (in the oncoming direction). I can't imagine the council have painted the bike logos upside down, but no "Ecxept Cycles" signs have gone up under the "No Entry" signs like you'd normally expect so it seemed a bit ambiguous.

When on my bike, I go around this stretch of the road via the one-way system but I'll definitely use this shortcut if the no-entry doesn't apply to cycles! Does anyone know, or know how to find out?

[ratty]

Like cyclists follow the rules of the road anyway!

[Pickle]

Perhaps it's changed recently, but a couple of months ago Mr Pickle got a slap on the hand by a police officer for riding the wrong way up that section (along with every other cyclist doing exactly the same thing, it's a common cut through for cyclists).

[SeanMacGabhann]

That phrase is just too good to not pull out

[binary_star]

ratty Wrote:

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> Like cyclists follow the rules of the road anyway!

Cyclists follow the rules of the road as much as any other type of road user. What an unnecessarily confrontational response.

Pickle - I was thinking that it had changed recently becauset the bike logos have only just been painted. I'd like to know if anyone had a definitive answer as I do not currently use it as a cut-through, but would like to?

[SCSB79]

binary_star Wrote:

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> ratty Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Like cyclists follow the rules of the road

> anyway!

>

> Cyclists follow the rules of the road as much as

> any other type of road user. What an unnecessarily

> confrontational response.

I disagree and I am a cyclist. I think I am one of very few who follow the rules of the road - well almost ;-)

The amount of cyclists running red lights, cycling on the footpaths, wrong way up one way streets etc is quite ridiculous.

[binary_star]

SCSB79 Wrote:

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> I disagree and I am a cyclist....The amount of cyclists running red lights...is quite ridiculous.

But not actually any more than any other road user, it's just public perception. The City Police all but admitted this when they were queried about why they have so many 'sting' operations giving out fixed penalty notices to cyclists.

[taper]

I think cyclists can go both ways on this stretch. There's a sign at the Holly Grove end isn't there?

On the wider issue, it's pedestrians I really loath. I think cyclists and car drivers should unite in common cause against them, the cotton clad Nazis.

[Loz]

binary_star Wrote:

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> SCSB79 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I disagree and I am a cyclist....The amount of

> cyclists running red lights...is quite

> ridiculous.

>

> But not actually any more than any other road

> user, it's just public perception. The City Police

> all but admitted this when they were queried about

> why they have so many 'sting' operations giving

> out fixed penalty notices to cyclists.

Do you have any stats for that - or is it just your perception?

[michelle-b]

and here we go again?

[binary_star]

Loz Wrote:

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> Do you have any stats for that - or is it just

> your perception?

Of course I have stats for it. I'll dig them out later.

[DJKillaQueen]

Yet again a therad asking a simple question about a local road turns into a cyclist bashing thread.

[binary_star]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> Yet again a therad asking a simple question about

> a local road turns into a cyclist bashing thread.

Exactly. And the real question people should be asking is how many cyclists kill (or endanger the lives of) others in comparison to other road users (yes I also have stats for this before anyone asks). But no-one cares about that as much as having a moan about jumping red lights.

[AlfieNoakes]

A number of one-way streets have been made two-way for cyclists in central London. This has been going on for a while.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23629978-one-way-rule-to-be-waived-for-cyclists-in-city-streets.do

Maybe this is being extended to the rest of London where appropriate.

I use this cut through every day and it's not particularly hazardous so long as cyclists keep a look out when they reach either end of it. It's not a fast or busy stretch of road.

As people have said, it's unlikely the cyclist will cause any harm to anyone other than themselves if they get it wrong.

I drive a car and ride a motorbike as well as cycle so can see this from both sides. I don't think it's an issue on this particular bit of road.

[Applespider]

There are a few - and the upside down cycles are sometimes the only signs to indicate it. There's one in Brixton that only got signs to indicate it was now 2-way for cyclists several months after the fact.

If the street is wide enough and is quiet enough, it works pretty well - particularly if the cyclist keeps their eyes peeled. However, why they did it on Melford Road is a mystery. It's officially 2-way for cyclists where it joins Lordship Lane but since it's not a particularly wide road, usually has parked cars on either side, it really would be a kamikaze cyclists who risks going down it.

So far as cycle-bashing goes, there are bad drivers, cyclists and pedestrians most likely in equal proportions. The problem is that bad drivers/cyclists/pedestrians are far more visible than 'good' ones. One idiot streaking through a red light (in a bike or a car) is far more obvious than the 90% who are sitting waiting at the red light.

I would slightly dispute that cyclists don't cause harm to anyone but themselves. I agree in terms of cars and other vehicles but pedestrians are just as vulnerable at the cyclists so we should be careful in those 1-way streets because they're often not aware that traffic could come from an unexpected direction and don't check when crossing. My most painful cycle injury came falling off while trying to avoid a drunk pedestrian who meandered into the cycle lane.

[intexasatthe moment]

As far as I know this stretch of Bellenden does not yet have a bike contra flow .

But there were /are planning notices on the lamposts indicating that permission is being sought to introduce a contraflow .

[binary_star]

Ok, these stats are from a 2005 report for the London Road Safety Unit (TfL) which recorded red light violations at twelve ASL sites in London and two non ASL sites (the 'control' sites). Of all the cyclists that passed through the light-controlled junctions, on average 17% violated red lights. There is no comparable figure (or I can't find it) for other traffic - I just wanted to point out that it's not as many as people think!

However, of *all* the traffic violations that were made by *all* road users, cyclists made up 51% of offenders at the ASL sites and 40% at the control sites - averaging out at 48.8% of all the vehicles violating red lights at all sites. OTHER road users (either car, goods vehicle, bus/coach drivers or motorcyclists) made up the rest - yes OVER HALF of offenders.

This is bundling all 'other road users' together, but even if we just take cycles vs cars, cars made up the majority violaters at 5 of the 12 sites (admittedly not as much as cyclists who were the majority at the other 7). Versus *all* road users, cyclists made up the majority of offenders at only half of the sites.

Also the authors pointed out:

"Across the ASL sites generally, the main violation offenders were cars, (including taxis) (34%) and bicycles (51%). Cyclists essentially have more opportunity to violate as more can proceed through the junction at any one time. The high percentage of red light violations by cyclists may partially be a result of the composition of traffic. "

Tried to attach report but the file is too large, can be downloaded here: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tfl.gov.uk%2Fassets%2Fdownloads%2FBehaviour-at-cycle-advanced-stop-lines.pdf&rct=j&q=Behaviour-at-cycle-advanced-stop-lines%5B1%5D.pdf&ei=DiK2TPjxK4-T4gba8MSgDQ&usg=AFQjCNFxOMp5KgsCxThLtG4sVfRdmnxjjA&sig2=XtLuc0WJ6fOH8rX9bhZs1w&cad=rja

[binary_star]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> As far as I know this stretch of Bellenden does

> not yet have a bike contra flow .

> But there were /are planning notices on the

> lamposts indicating that permission is being

> sought to introduce a contraflow .

Excellent, this will explain it then.

[sakwhita]

AlfieNoakes Wrote:

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> I use this cut through every day and it's not

> particularly hazardous so long as cyclists keep a

> look out when they reach either end of it. It's

> not a fast or busy stretch of road.

>

You hit a pedestrian who is walking across the road, who should have no need to look towards where you are coming from, and you cause serious damage.

[Pearson]

Quite likely too.

A lot of peds tend to be further distracted by their mobile phone

conversations to not even bother looking the correct way either.

Still the cyclist fault of course.

[ianr]

I nearly got knocked down on that Bellenden Road stretch a few years ago, through walking across it in the belief that traffic would only be going in one direction. That was a useful educational reminder.

I had a close look this afternoon. On a post at the Holly Grove end of the stretch there is a paper about a proposed traffic order allowing bicycle contraflow in Bellenden Road between Holly Grove and Highshore Road, and in two other roads (I think one might have been Gervase something). That was dated July, with the consultation period ending in August.

There are three fairly freshly painted cycle symbols on the left hand of the stretch, facing in the contraflow direction, and what was the far side of the speed humps have also been painted. But no other signs at all.

I very much doubt that the painted symbols confer any right in themselves, though I suppose that they might just stymie any prosecution for riding the wrong way etc, against anyone who survives. I really wouldn't try or advise it, with motorists being potentially wholly unaware of the possibility. I trust there soon will be proper advisory signs for all, though I've no idea how far the administrative processes have got. I gave up searching for any relevant information on the new improved Southwark website before despair ensued.

I did, fwiw, come across this:

"Camberwell Community Council CGS Capital Programme 2010-11 Funding Allocations

To build a cycle contraflow that enable cyclist to use Grove Vale, Oglander

Road and Copleston Road in both directions therefore creating a

permeable cycle route to and from Grove Vale ?35,000"

[woofmarkthedog]

So do we have a definitive answer

No ?

Oh ok then, I like giving the odd motorist a shock on that bit of road. You should see their faces as I blaze a trail " the wrong way " towards them

They nearly drop their mobile phones when they have to use both hands to steer & avoid me

W**F

[SeanMacGabhann]

I have seen woof own the streets of Bellenden on that bike of his. I wouldn't argue with him...

[cate]

Is Copleston Road one way for cyclists at the Grove Vale End?

[minkturtle]

...