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Please read and support your firefighters!!!!

Moflo

By Moflo
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SeanMacGabhann

SeanMacGabhann

Posted
Posted

but that said I take your point about needing to introduce changes which may be unpopular with staff. I'm not against that as a principle




I can only refer you to the track record of this union and the changes they have accepted over the last decade. It's not a bad track record. It's not one which suggest militants. So when I say "more to this than meets the eye" I mean no skullduggery, merely given the track record, that you and I may not be aware of all the facts

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laincoubert

laincoubert

Posted
Posted

Ok,there's no conspiracy to break the union. Coleman, isn't deceiving us, Dobson isn't doing this to further his own political career.


Dobson has publicly stated he will sack any firefighter who won't sign and Coleman is relaxed about sacking them.


They refuse to show any goodwill and thus are prepared to allow the strike to commence Friday.


All this is so that firefighters can fit a few more smoke alarms in the afternoon!!! Make any sense????


There are of course last minute talks planned to avert the strike, negotiations I think they are called. Yet mr Dobson has already sent notice to the watch coming on duty Friday telling to stay at home instead of working the hour they should work before the strike begins. Sounds to me like the last minute talks are already doomed and the outcome already decided as there will be no opportunity to recall these firefighters after the talks end!!!


There are no negotiations are there!!!

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spc

spc

Posted
Posted

DJKQ and Huguenot,

Ffs (who are the union)knew that the brigade wanted 12 hour shifts back in 2005 and not just 16 months ago, it was a bad idea then and it is still a bad idea, just because they have wanted it for a long time does not stop it being a bad idea.


Again because you know about something does not mean you have been negotiating about it.


It is a FACT that negotiations did not start until this year, the brigade will tell you that themselves, before that there were only discussions which is not the samething (5 in total over the 4 1/2 years), as I have said before for 4 1/2 years the brigade "discussions" took the form of saying here are your new shifts they will be 12 hours long. Legally that cannot change our contracts without NEGITIATIONS. We the FBU told them they needed to negotiate all along but they would not, if they had this would have been sort years ago.


There are 3 brigade around the country that have changed to 12 hour shifts all have reduced night time fire cover, there are about 10-12 brigades in the whole country that have changed shift all by negotiation, that is all we want.


I don't think you union is willing to compromise, I KNOW the union which is the Ffs in London are willing to compromise, once again as I have said before we have offered 3 compromises which give the brigade the productivity inceases they say they want, but it is they that are not willing to compromise.


For the record I am a union offical in the FBU in London and I think I know a little more about the truth of this than you do, if you choose not to believe what I am saying that is your chose, it does not make it untrue.


As I said before I have been a Ff for 24 years and have seen fire figure drop (until this year) I have seen fire death drop (until this year) but you still need the same amount of Ffs to deal with a fire, by not understanding this you prove that you don't know what you are talking about. If a fire in East Dulwich happens you need x amount of Ffs to deal with it, the same amount you needed 10, 20 or even 30 years ago, if the same fire happen in Wembely you need the same amount of Ffs, but not the same Ffs as the building would have burnt down by the time they got there. So you need enough Ffs to cover all areas of London in case there is a fire, it does not matter if you have 10 fires or one fire in a day you still have to cover the whole of London.


Stay safe everyone, make sure you have a working smoke detector

spc

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Loz

Loz

Posted
Posted
For the record I am a union offical in the FBU in London and I think I know a little more about the truth of this than you do


Excellent - in that case maybe you can explain the thinking behind striking on Bonfire night. It's a dumb idea - why did you do it?

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DJKillaQueen

DJKillaQueen

Posted
Posted

Firefighters risk their lives. In that respect, theirs is not a "normal" job.


Soldiers, Police Officers, Construction workers all have far higher fatality rates than ffs. I would even argue that, given the fatality rate is very low, that ffs do not risk their lives daily as most of the incidents they attend have absolutely no significant risk to themselves whatsoever (because of the training they have and the equipment they use). As I said before, a ff has more chance of being injured in a car accident than they do on the job.


Having said all that of course, doesn't take away that there is risk incvolved in serious incidents (but thankfully they are few), and they ARE trained specifically to deal with that risk. After all, many construstion workers die every year (as much as 60 some years) and they too know they are doing a risky job in which workers die, but we don't give them 'hero' status, and bleat on about it.

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brum

brum

Posted
Posted
I think that the key reason why its not seen as a 'normal' job, DJKQ, is that the core role of a firefighter is to save life. It means that where most people run out of a burning building, firefighters run in. I just stayed in a Firefighters Charity bungalow in Devon that was built from the money raised by the public after a firefighter was killed saving children in a house fire. The willingness to put their own lives on the line to save others sets them aside from construction workers, who I have the greatest respect for and understand that despite massive improvements in H&S their job is still hazardous.
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Ladymuck

Ladymuck

Posted
Posted

brum Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I think that the key reason why its not seen as a

> 'normal' job, DJKQ, is that the core role of a

> firefighter is to save life. It means that where

> most people run out of a burning building,

> firefighters run in.


That's exactly right. As another firefighter put it:


?No one here has joined the job to become a millionaire. We do it to protect the public.?

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spc

spc

Posted
Posted

Loz,

Bonfire night is night with the highest number of injuries, it is also one of the busiest nights for Ffs for calls, that does not mean you are at more risk from fire on that day.


Christmas is the time at which people are at the highest risk from fire, more people die and more damage is done to property at Christmas.


On bonfire night we attend more calls, but normally do very little, we are normally call by people who are upset about people having fun outside the homes, who have call the police who have done nothing and then think calling us is the next best thing or by people who believe there is a fire in a home which turns out to be a bonfire in the garden


It seems logical that bonfire night would be the night that is the highest risk for fires and fire deaths, but it is not.


We are being sacked from the 26th November so we do not have much time to sort this out, all we are asking is for the brigade to sit down and talk so we can settle this, as I have said before we have offered them the same and even more productivity they say they want but they are still planning to sack us all.


We started with a very short strike (8 hours) hoping the brigade would talk after, as they haven't we are now increasing the action we are taking.


We are meeting the brigade today and I hope we come to an agreement so we can stop this madness and get back to protecting the public like we all want.


Stay safe and make sure you have a working smoke detector.

spc

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DJKillaQueen

DJKillaQueen

Posted
Posted

Sigh...you are not being sacked you are being asked to sign new contracts....an entirely different thing altogether. And just as any employee in ANY sector chooses to sign or leave the job the same is for you. We can disagree on the reasons why the new contract is or isn't suitable or good but the fact remains that terminating contracts and issuing new ones is a normal part of UK employment practise for the vast majority of employees, and fire fighters need to understand that.


Also MOST of the public sector workers I know (and I know lots) chose the public sector because of the job security, employment rights and strong unions and generous pension schemes. So it's absolutely not true to say that people choose public sector jobs out of some altuistic sense of duty to the public. All the ffs I know all joined the fire service because they thought it would be an exciting job to do. Many of them are ex military and thought their skills would be relevant. None of them joined out of an over riding sense of public duty. So that's another myth that in my view, and it is just my view, that's being conveniently peddled to try and give credibility to the FFU stance in this dispute.

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Keef

Keef

Posted
Posted
Also MOST of the public sector workers I know (and I know lots) chose the public sector because of the job security, employment rights and strong unions and generous pension schemes. So it's absolutely not true to say that people choose public sector jobs out of some altuistic sense of duty to the public.


That is anecdotal at best! How can you say something is "absolutely not true", based on the opinions of a few people that you know?


I also know lots of public sector workers, and I don't think most of them thought "Hmm, I think I'll go and do a degree in social work / occupational therapy / nursing because when I finish, I'll get a good pension, and the union will look after me".


Yes, once you start, it is nice to feel that your job is relatively secure (I miss that feeling since I left my last permanent job), I won't deny that. But to say that, that is why "MOST" people get in to it, is doing them a disservice.

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brum

brum

Posted
Posted

karter Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > Some changes are needed but i am with Brum and the

> boys on this.



Thanks K. By the way, have you noticed that a couple of our 'boys' are acting a bit, well, strange? You know, like scratching their arses and making sexist comments stacked with innuendo.... whilst speaking with... (gasp!) Aussie accents?! I wonder who they can be? And I'm sure one of them is wearing a false beard. ;-)

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