Help - rod for own back!!

[littleEDfamily]

So I have been winging it for the first 4.5 months of my second baby's life - just going with the flow and revelling in her gorgeousness. The result of this approach is a baby that only will really sleep in the day if in the car, or attached to boob (sort of dozing off - waking up whenever I try to move). She will go to bed at 7pm (only after a couple of hours of hysteria due to total exhauston from lack of sleep during day - unless of course we've spent lots of time in the car), but tends to wake up at some point in the night and is promptly lifted into our bed where she helps herself to milk whenever she fancies it until about 7:30am.

So I know I have totally mucked it all up, but am now ready to sort it out, for her sake and mine. Oh and hubby's and Daughter 1, with whom I get hardly any time as baby so tired and needy when awake.

The lack of daytime sleeping is bothering me more than the night time issues. How do I force her to sleep in her cot during the day for a decent amount of time (gots nuts the minute I try to put her down)? Have tried letting her cry it out, but am afraid that she'll get bad associations with her cot. She won't take a dummy, which was my saviour with daughter No 1 - not sure if she just prefers her 'human dummy' (more proof of me mucking it all up) or that some babies just don't do dummies.

Aaaaaarrgghhhhhhhh! Help!

[buggie]

I've found the advice in the baby whisperer book really good - think we've got "secrets of the baby whisperer" and have dipped into it since lil un was born 8wks ago. Is no where near as strict as Gina Ford - seems to give you the tools to set your own routine/what suits your baby.

It suggests watching/noting down what the baby does for a day or so as there is likely to be a pattern to what they do regarding eating/sleeping. It also talks about how to settle - think there's four S's - can only remember 2 = swaddling, Shhs/patting (both in arms and once laying down until settled/sleeping).

Having a routine/consistency when settling them for naps helps them know what's happening as well.

If you google "baby whisperer forums" there is lots of advice on there.

[littleEDfamily]

Thanks Buggie - I had a Baby Whisperer book with first and liked her a lot. Thinking I was an expert, however I gave it away, and can't remember lots....may get another one....

What is really irritating is that she falls asleep in the car while I am taking big girl to school, and then wakes up as soon as we get home (whole trip is 25 min), so just when I would like to put her down for a proper sleep, the nap in car has taken the edge off.

[EmilyE]

This all sounds very familiar.

It really doesn't sound as though you've totally mucked things up if you've been revelling in her gorgeousness. but I do understand the need for a bit more sleep.

I have a 5 and a bit month old and we've been going through very similar things. I've been trying to extend his gaps between feeds during the day (going to at least 3 hours) and that does seem to mean that he sleeps a bit better/longer, but still only 45minutes or so. I seem to remember reading a thread on here about little babies not really sleeping for very long at a time, so I don't think that's too bad. I've also started putting him down on his tummy (I know, I know) which really seems to help, and also he really seems to need to cry for a bit before dropping off. I'm not a fan of controlled crying, but when I have left him (because we really have to get to school/similar and the other children really aren't co-operating) he has often dropped off - so I do now leave him a few minutes.

Many people I speak to have had problems getting their babes sleeping at this kind of age - I'm just telling myself that it'll all sort itself out by 6 months or so...

Good luck.

[womanofdulwich]

might help if you got out of your routine a bit by going on holiday to a differnt house with different cot etc and then you could start again. do you have to drive to school? is there a different way? cant you take her for a long walk?we used to go round the park for about an hour every morning/afternoon. lots of fresh air etc?i rememeber when i had had enough i used to drive to a park and then park up and read a book while baby slept in car-not recommended, but we all have days like that.

I think the day time sleeps while you take her for a walk are a good start- then she will not be so tired and hysterical later- get her temper right first- then take on the " going to bed in cot at bedtime". may be in her own room?

you can work you way up to the rest later.Try and get your partner to help you with the settling in cot at night .

[littleEDfamily]

Oh if only we could walk to school - we live in the country now (still using forum as parenting life-line, yes!), so no option but to drive - no pavements around here even for short walks. I totally agree that a walk in the fresh air does wonders for all (we were living in ED with first one, and walked for miles daily!)

I've just made an attempt at sshing her back to sleep when she awoke from her initial stint of evening sleeping - wanting to culr up in our bed and have boob on tap as per usual. Total failure, cried hysterically and thrashed like a wild beast until we gave up (about an hour worth of torture). She is now happy as pie on daddy's lap while we watch Desperate Housewives and grinning at us like a cheshire cat and making happy gurgling sounds. WTF???

I do have a slight feeling she may be getting ready for solids - she's a big bubba and seems to be eying up my food with great interest (is that a sign?) Might this routine thing become easier after solids?

[Fuschia]

Don't worry at all, baby sleep patterns and needs are very diferent to 4m+,now is about the earliest you can expect a nap routine to appear, IMO!

[littleEDfamily]

Thanks ladies....I like the advice about the getting them to sleep via any means at the right times, and then converting that to cot sleeping later (at least that's how I interpreted it), although I wonder if that may be my way of woosing out.

Have tried the sshhiing and patting with better than average results today (as well as what the baby whisperer calls the Pick up Put Down thing) - can you believe I forgot about doing something cave dwelling women probably did! I was just putting her in her cot and running away - what an amateur!

[alieh]

Just to second the advice about the Baby Whisperer Forums. One key thing is making sure that you're not trying to get her to sleep either too late or too early. There are loads of mums on that Baby Whisperer site that will coach you through it and suggest what other similar aged babies are doing re: number of naps, etc. (not that there is any "standard" baby routine of course, but it could be worth a try!).

[zv2010]

I was in a very similar situation with my baby (now nearly 6 months) about 6 weeks ago. He would only sleep on the boob, in the sling or in the pram, refused to go into his cot. Also at very random times if at all.

I decided to use Gina Ford's routines to get him into a regular feeding and napping pattern. To begin with, use any method to get your baby to sleep to get used to the timings - but try to roughly stick to the times suggested by the routine. This meant 2 hourly walks for me through the neighbourhood with him in the pram.

Once he was a bit more used to the timings I started putting him down in his cot instead. I use (still do) shush pat and pick up put down, as suggested by the baby whisperer. Don't expect it to work straight away or every single time, but it has worked a lot of the times for us. Make sure the baby is drowsy but awake when you put her down. If your baby wakes up at different times as suggested by the routine (and she almost certainly will..), the rule of thumb is that your baby is mostly likely to be tired again after being awake for 2-3 hours. Then watch for the tiredness signs, i.e. eyes rubbing, yawning, crying etc and then take her to the bedroom.

For us the situation has improved a lot (touch wood). The routine is by no means perfect yet but there are many days that I put my baby down for at least 1 or 2 naps in his cot and often get one reasonably long nap out of him (like 1.5 hours), the other nap around 40 mins.

Hope this helps a bit.

[MichelleT]

I seem to be very lucky with my 4 month old baby, he's like his dad and loves sleeping. I do roughly follow the baby whisperer, so about two hours after he's fed he gets put in bed and is usually asleep in five minutes. Will she take a dummy? Mine does, plus his comforter; seems to work like a charm! Since I've been a bit stricter about naps he has at least 2 short ones (45 mins) and one longer (1.5 - 2hrs) which means that he and I are both much happier!

I just read - but have forgotten most of! - the No Cry Sleep Solution. She had a few useful suggestions that I do remember - put the baby in the cot when they're not sleepy so they play in it and like it. What she calls a 'lovey' - a comforter of some sort. a nap and bedtime routine, so the baby knows its time for sleep. worth buying, its only a few quid on amazon.

[littleEDfamily]

MichelleT - alas no, no dummy. This is where I have been derailed somewhat. My first only had hers at sleeptime and it worked like a charm. Little one spits it out in disgust. I am thinking of binning all dummies in the house as I keep finding the 3 year old sneaking off with them for a quiet suck!

The advice about not worrying about lack of routine is very kind, but deep down I know its time to buckle down and sort something out for her - it breaks my heart (ok, and drives me insane) to hear her wail with tiredness because she hasn't had sleep when she needs it. It's just finding the energy to really commit to change, isn't it!?

Had another thought about why she hasn't taken to her cot - she's in our room still and given we have only recently moved in, there is NOTHING for her to look at, unlike her sister's room which has lots of lovely things to see and be distracted by. I do think, as MichelleT suggests, I need to make the cot area more attractive place - good excuse to get a cool new mobile!!

zv2010 - sounds like we have very similar babies, and am very cheered by your experience. thanks for the wise words.

[new mother]

THe only thing I've observed is that babies like routine. I no longer try to get them to do my thing. I just had to accept that they run the show. My baby's vague routine is basically:

1. wake 630am - feed done by my husband

2. 9am breakfast porridge and banana, then play, classes etc

3. 1045ish - starts to sleep

4. 12 ish or 1215 or 1230 ish onwards - "lunch"

5. depending on (4) but once fed, class, park, walk etc - to around 3pm

6. 3pm ish - sleep starts

7. depending on (6) but around 430pm/5pm - start food "dinner"

8. 6pm bath and play

9. 7pm bed

any good?