Poor transport links: any one else thinking of fleeing East Dulwich?

[titch juicy]

BrandNewGuy Wrote:

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> Jeremy Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > BrandNewGuy Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > As for getting the bus to work... it would be

> only

> > a matter of days before I had a genuine

> "Falling

> > Down" moment..

>

> I'm a grumpy middle-aged man and I can grab the 40

> to London Bridge (and back) if necessary without

> going into meltdown. I could start a support group

> :-)

I also have a low tolerance for commuting and find the 40 bus ride to LB and a ten minute stroll up the road a relaxing way of doing it. Always get a decent seat upstairs near the back, headphones in, gaze out of the window. Easy and frankly quality time.

[DulwichLondoner]

rendelharris Wrote:

> Thank you, it's nice to see some people can see

> the actual evidence instead of what they want to

> see! From Peckham to Vauxhall is 2.8 miles up the

> invariably jammed Camberwell New Road: the

> segregated cycle lane runs for 0.3 of a mile from

> Archbishop Tenison's School to Vauxhall Cross.

I should have also mentioned that the bus lane has been removed from Vauxhall bridge to make way for segregated cycle lanes, so it's now the whole Oval to Pimlico route (bar a few metres by Vauxhall bus station) that is now without bus lanes. I suppose I am the only unlucky individual who ever gets stuck in a bus on that route because of this. Or maybe cyclists couldn't care less about bus users.

> Two things to note there: one is that motor

> vehicles still have two full lanes of traffic

> going one way there, so there could be a bus lane

> if wanted,

How? You mean making the road one-way only? Or making it accessible to buses only? And where would the other vehicles be rerouted?

> the other is that I can confidently

> say, having worked at ATS for many years, that

> that stretch of road was always badly jammed

> before they built the cycle lane, in fact if

> anything it's less jammed now than it was ten

> years ago. But that won't stop some people seeing

> a cycle lane and immediately starting to froth

> that it must be the cause of the congestion - not,

> apparently, the motorised vehicles causing the

> congestion!

I made a very specific point about buses and the importance of public transport. So the fact that buses no longer have a dedicated bus lane from Oval all the way to Pimlico is utterly irrelevant? It has had no effect on bus journey times? My experience on this is unrepresentative? Why did, then, even TFL admit that bus users would be negatively affected? Why did the transport watchdog say the same, too? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2014/jul/16/how-badly-will-boris-johnsons-cycling-vision-penalise-bus-users

> Despite the claims by the Daily Mail and certain

> rather similar people on here that segregated

> cycle lanes are "all over London," less than 2% of

> roads in central London have lanes

How is this percentage calculated? Does it include tiny residential roads which cannot realistically be used for travelling around London? What is the % of A roads that do have a cycle lane, instead? That number would be way more relevant.

[DrinkingBuddy]

I've lived in ED for the last 8 years having previously lived at various points along the Northern Line from Finchley to Tooting and various places in between in the decade before. I have never lived anywhere the transport was better. I'm not going to fall into calling it good, but (at least for me commuting to CW) the options of travelling via overground (DH and FH), train to Lewisham followed by DLR, ED to London Bridge and the option of cycling via Tower Bridge or Greenwich has made it far and away the most flexible (and far more pleasant than the Northern line) location I've ever lived.

Now to be fair, I would prefer to leave London and accept a longer commute to get a better location for the little Drinking Buddies, but Mrs. Drinking Buddy is long since wed to the area.

I would highlight that the bus services have become noticably worse in the last year or so, but I would suggest that is a problem easily solved with the correct pressure on the powers that be.

[DulwichLondoner]

Louisa Wrote:

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> Knew this sort of thread was inevitable on here.

> Was always baffled as to why so many people wanted

> to come here?

When I bought here, similar properties in the Balham - Clapham Common - Clapham North area were about 50% more expensive. It was one of the few areas within our budget, with a reasonable commute to London Bridge, with decent schools, walking distance to parks, and a bit of a high street. Until Christmas 2014, I liked the area; sure, trains weren't every 3 minutes, but the schedule was respected. Now Balham and Clapham are still more expensive, but I get the impression the difference is no longer necessarily 50%, which is why we are wondering if we shouldn't maybe stretch ourselves a bit and see if we can move there.

@Bil, I honestly fail to understand how you can consider everything you need within easy reach. Similarly, I'll never understand all those comments about how unique East Dulwich is. I mean, it's nice, but it's hardly the only area in London with parks nearby and a bit of a high street, come on! And I hear the same not just about ED, hence my initial comment about the difficulty of obtaining reliable feedback because too many people can't admit that the area they live isn't the best one ever.

Lordship lane has a cinema, food stores, cafes, two opticians, a shoe store, a toy store and baby store. If you ever need to buy anything else, good luck! Last time we went to TkMaxx in Brixton (Brixton, not North London) it took us about an hour door to door waiting for the 37-which-never-comes.

A bus journey to Southbank on a Sunday can easily take more than an hour. It would take less from Guildford!

Over the last few months my family and I have experienced:

a train from Victoria to Denmark Hill changing destination and going to Herne Hill, with NO announcements. Time from Victoria to East Dulwich: over an hour, including the wait for the beloved 37.

messing up our nanny's weekend plans; our nanny was supposed to leave our place at 6ish pm ,but our train from London Bridge stopped at South Bermondsey because of some fault on the line. We had to take a Uber home, we arrived late, which meant our nanny was late, too.

being very late at 2 important work meetings because, in both cases, my train and the two subsequent ones were cancelled. The meetings were outside rush hour; I had planned to get there 30 minutes early, to account for the lousy public transport, but it wasn't enough.

a breakdown of the overground; I made it on time to my meeting only because I had planned to get there 1 hour earlier.

Is my experience so unrepresentative? Am I just unlucky? Note that this is without using the train every day, because I tend to commute by motorcycle Monday to Friday.

I have been in East Dulwich for about 5 years. I never experienced anything even only remotely comparable between 2011 and the summer of 2014 - late 2014 is when it started to get really bad.

[bil]

DulwichLondoner Wrote:

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> Louisa Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Knew this sort of thread was inevitable on

> here.

> > Was always baffled as to why so many people

> wanted

> > to come here?

>

> When I bought here, similar properties in the

> Balham - Clapham Common - Clapham North area were

> about 50% more expensive. It was one of the few

> areas within our budget, with a reasonable commute

> to London Bridge, with decent schools, walking

> distance to parks, and a bit of a high street.

> Until Christmas 2014, I liked the area; sure,

> trains weren't every 3 minutes, but the schedule

> was respected. Now Balham and Clapham are still

> more expensive, but I get the impression the

> difference is no longer necessarily 50%, which is

> why we are wondering if we shouldn't maybe stretch

> ourselves a bit and see if we can move there.

>

> @Bil, I honestly fail to understand how you can

> consider everything you need within easy reach.

> Similarly, I'll never understand all those

> comments about how unique East Dulwich is. I mean,

> it's nice, but it's hardly the only area in London

> with parks nearby and a bit of a high street, come

> on! And I hear the same not just about ED, hence

> my initial comment about the difficulty of

> obtaining reliable feedback because too many

> people can't admit that the area they live isn't

> the best one ever.

>

> Lordship lane has a cinema, food stores, cafes,

> two opticians, a shoe store, a toy store and baby

> store. If you ever need to buy anything else, good

> luck! Last time we went to TkMaxx in Brixton

> (Brixton, not North London) it took us about an

> hour door to door waiting for the

> 37-which-never-comes.

>

> A bus journey to Southbank on a Sunday can easily

> take more than an hour. It would take less from

> Guildford!

>

> Over the last few months my family and I have

> experienced:

>

> a train from Victoria to Denmark Hill changing

> destination and going to Herne Hill, with NO

> announcements. Time from Victoria to East Dulwich:

> over an hour, including the wait for the beloved

> 37.

>

> messing up our nanny's weekend plans; our nanny

> was supposed to leave our place at 6ish pm ,but

> our train from London Bridge stopped at South

> Bermondsey because of some fault on the line. We

> had to take a Uber home, we arrived late, which

> meant our nanny was late, too.

>

> being very late at 2 important work meetings

> because, in both cases, my train and the two

> subsequent ones were cancelled. The meetings were

> outside rush hour; I had planned to get there 30

> minutes early, to account for the lousy public

> transport, but it wasn't enough.

>

> a breakdown of the overground; I made it on time

> to my meeting only because I had planned to get

> there 1 hour earlier.

>

> Is my experience so unrepresentative? Am I just

> unlucky? Note that this is without using the train

> every day, because I tend to commute by motorcycle

> Monday to Friday.

>

> I have been in East Dulwich for about 5 years. I

> never experienced anything even only remotely

> comparable between 2011 and the summer of 2014 -

> late 2014 is when it started to get really bad.

Yikes...keep your hair on! I gave my opinion and experience! I've lived in Kensal Green, Paddington, Queens park, Kilburn, Walthamstow, Elephant and Castle (literally 1 minute from the station) Holborn, New Cross, Brockley, Lewisham, Sydenham, Stratford, Leyton, parts of Surrey. I've never really appreciated living near better transport links and perhaps I should have. On hindsight, I realise that I had it good at New Cross, Holborn and very good at Paddington and Elephant. Paddington was shady at night and very busy/noisy. I endlessly complained about Holborn even though i was a short walk from central line and Piccadilly line..It was so expensive to live in Holborn, it was very busy and there was no green space. I never spent time in Elephant; literally got on the train or bus and got outta there. New cross transport was good, quick and convenient but I hated the place. I used to think the train journeys from Kensal to paddington were long and we would sometime sit at Queens park for 5-10 minutes. Again it really wasn't that bad at all. Unfortunately I'm pretty impatient when many would not be...So overall yes I love Dulwich, it's quieter and that suits me, it's convenient for small shops, cinema, I live near Peckham rye and dulwich park (I love parks/commons) I can go to Peckham for items if I need and can drive into central easily in the evenings. I use the internet alot- Amazon, ocado etc. I don't go to busy, crowded shops- it's not necessary! I buy clothes online and try them on at home. I drive on weekends and evenings so I don't use public transport other than during the week days. I've always had a car even when I lived in Elephant and Holborn.

FYI we wanted to buy in Brockley conservation area but couldn't afford it. A house in our price range came up in ED and we moved here. So the move to ED wasn't intentional. I don't believe Dulwich is the best place in London; if I could afford I'd be in Richmond, Primrose Hill or Wimbledon village but finally I appreciate what I have and on a regular basis I tell myself i'm lucky to live here. I have a superb panoramic view of the city and don't wish to pay super high stamp duty moving to somewhere else where the grass might not be greener. Everyone's needs are different!

[Elphinstone's Army]

healey Wrote:

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> Going directly north to the West End (where I

> work) is a real pain. Other options are mostly

> okay when things are running properly. That's why

> the Bakerloo was originally meant to go to

> Camberwell.

>

> Still love it here though. IMHO the are few places

> better in the whole of London than this area.

East Dulwich is not Shangri La

[Earl Aelfheah]

I like the area a lot. The transport has never been amazing, but like people have said, that's what's kept prices 'relatively' low. But the service hasn't remained static, it has deteriorated. The same is true in Camberwell, where I also lived for many years and which really should have got a tube extension (they've been campaigning hard for decades). I find two things really frustrating - firstly the government's complete inability to deal with the omnishambles that is Southern Trains (and their reneging on promises to transfer to TFL for purely political reasons) and secondly the policy of only extending the tube network into low population areas, effectively a bung to developers of 'luxury' flats.

[DulwichLondoner]

An alternative I want to look into is Earlsfield. The high street sucks compared to Lordship lane, but the Southside shopping centre and Wimbledon are within easy reach.

It's only one train stop from Clapham Junction; since multiple lines converge onto Earlsfield, trains to Waterloo (via Clapham Junction and Vauxhall) are very very frequent, and are NOT run by Southern (unlike the Balham to Victoria line).

Balham has a tube line and a much nicer high street but is more expensive.

Property prices in Earlsfield seem comparable to those in ED now.

The big question mark is schools; anecdotally, primary schools in Wandsworth seem to be more oversubscribed than here in ED. Wandsworth council has introduced a much-debated policy whereby siblings only have priority if the family hasn't moved since the first child got in, or if they moved but still live within 800 metres from the school. his was because even families living 200 metres from some schools failed to get a place.

By the way, I was in Victoria yesterday and overheard about the gazillionth service to Brighton via Gatwick being cancelled because of 'temporary staff shortage'. A few days ago my wife came home very late because her train from London Bridge was waiting for the driver to arrive!

If these were occasional occurrences one wouldn't mind too much, but they're not.

[alex_b]

I think it depends where in ED you are. I'm near Goose Green and walk up to Peckham Rye. I can reliably do my front door to my office (in Marylebone) in 50 minutes which I don't find bad at all. Likewise I can get to the wharf in a little over 30 mins which is pretty good although the Jubilee line is crowded at Canada Water in the mornings. On weekends we mainly use buses (principally the 176) to get into town as they're more convenient than lugging a toddler up and down station stairs.

If you're looking for other areas with decent-ish connections into the city or the wharf, the Forrest Hill or Crystal Palace are options and both have nice spots on their high streets. Otherwise you'll be paying the high prices of SW London and potentially putting up with Waterloo which has its own share of problems.

[Cardelia]

One thing you may wish to consider is that the next South West Trains franchise will almost certainly be affected by RMT strikes concerning driver-operated doors. Currently SWT have guards who open the doors but these roles will be changed in line with Government policy regarding the modernization of the railways. So there will be a lot of disruption in the next few years.

[KidKruger]

What RRR said. I am actually thinking of ditching London because I don't want to live anywhere else in London and living here is increasingly and inconsistently difficult to get into City which is what I positioned myself here for originally (when there were at most 10-15 people on the platform for my morning train to LB). If you can work from home indefinitely then no problem obviously.

The Govt have created this situation, they don't care and everyone is kidding themselves that things will improve. A weak and pointless contract was agreed and no-one's accountable, you couldn't invent it.

"East Dulwich is not Shangri La"

Shangri La is not in London anyway, but as far as London goes I'd say ED IS in many ways (for me, at least) Shangri La.

[MDMDPD]

We need to campaign for TFL to run the Overground through ED on the Network Rail public infrastructure that already exists. Like they have in Forest Hill. We shouldn't be depdendent on Southern Trains

[titch juicy]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> What RRR said. I am actually thinking of ditching

> London because I don't want to live anywhere else

> in London and living here is increasingly and

> inconsistently difficult to get into City which is

> what I positioned myself here for originally (when

> there were at most 10-15 people on the platform

> for my morning train to LB). If you can work from

> home indefinitely then no problem obviously.

> The Govt have created this situation, they don't

> care and everyone is kidding themselves that

> things will improve. A weak and pointless contract

> was agreed and no-one's accountable, you couldn't

> invent it.

>

> "East Dulwich is not Shangri La"

> Shangri La is not in London anyway, but as far as

> London goes I'd say ED IS in many ways (for me, at

> least) Shangri La.

Seriously?! I find that quite amazing.

I work in the City and travel in everyday and just don't ever have any problems. When the train strike was on, I got the bus every day. Always got a seat, pretty much always in work within an hour (I work by Liverpool St station). When i get the train from ED to London bridge I also always get a seat, without fail (on the 7.30 or 7.50 trains).

Is this so different to a few years ago? And is it any worse than anywhere else in zone 2 or further out?

[JohnL]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> Seriously?! I find that quite amazing.

>

> I work in the City and travel in everyday and just

> don't ever have any problems. When the train

> strike was on, I got the bus every day. Always got

> a seat, pretty much always in work within an hour

> (I work by Liverpool St station). When i get the

> train from ED to London bridge I also always get a

> seat, without fail (on the 7.30 or 7.50 trains).

>

> Is this so different to a few years ago? And is

> it any worse than anywhere else in zone 2 or

> further out?

I catch Thameslink at Peckham Rye and it is usually late

and no chance of a seat.

It seems to have improved the last week with brand new trains.

1 Hour isn't good - we should be talking 30-40 minutes.:)

[titch juicy]

30 to 40 minutes door to door in London is a pipe dream unless you live in zone 1 or live right next to a station, surely?

Where do you get the Thameslink to? Blackfriars? Have you considered the 63 bus?

[rendelharris]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> 30 to 40 minutes door to door in London is a pipe

> dream unless you live in zone 1 or live right next

> to a station, surely?

I don't know, the only place I habitually catch a train to is my snooker club in King's Cross (because it involves a few pints so I leave the bike at home) - ten minute walk to Peckham Rye, twenty-five minute train to St.Pancras International, breaking off exactly forty minutes after locking the front door. Admittedly I don't usually go in rush hour, but then again it is an N1 postcode...

[JohnL]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> 30 to 40 minutes door to door in London is a pipe

> dream unless you live in zone 1 or live right next

> to a station, surely?

>

> Where do you get the Thameslink to? Blackfriars?

> Have you considered the 63 bus?

I hate an hour as that's about the time commuters from outside

London take - so you feel you're gaining nothing by living here.

I catch the 63 to Farrington when I'm in a relaxed mood and the

bus is normally good - but slow through Peckham and down the Old

Kent Road:)

[enjoy]

I would not move futher out and relay on ONE train.

Whenever you come to London Bridge in the afternoon and see the screens All TRAINS cancelled, then I am glad to know I can still take a bus or two to take me home, in the worst case I could even afford a taxi.

Imagine that to Sevenoaks, Bromley and the like

[alex_b]

JohnL Wrote:

> I hate an hour as that's about the time commuters

> from outside

> London take - so you feel you're gaining nothing

> by living here.

But that's an hour from home station into a London terminus, not door to door.

[Otta]

JohnL Wrote:

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> 1 Hour isn't good - we should be talking 30-40

> minutes.:)

Did you know that government guidelines on best practice say that children up to the age of 8 (with special educational needs) shouldn't have school journeys lasting more than 45 minutes. Over 8s it's an hour. These guidelines have been around forever (well decades).

So I think an hour to work is perfectly acceptable for a working adult :)

[titch juicy]

Plus you lose all of the other benefits of living in London.

[JohnL]

Ok I'm told :)

So it seems like my leave house at 8:54 and get into work at 9:40 is seen as good ?

Someone invent a transporter - or a hoverboard.

[titch juicy]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Ok I'm told :)

>

> So it seems like my leave house at 8:54 and get

> into work at 9:40 is seen as good ?

>

> Someone invent a transporter - or a hoverboard.

Someone please give me a job where i can leave the house at 8.54am! :)

[geobz]

Otta Wrote:

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> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > 1 Hour isn't good - we should be talking 30-40

> > minutes.:)

>

>

> Did you know that government guidelines on best

> practice say that children up to the age of 8

> (with special educational needs) shouldn't have

> school journeys lasting more than 45 minutes. Over

> 8s it's an hour. These guidelines have been around

> forever (well decades).

>

> So I think an hour to work is perfectly acceptable

> for a working adult :)

The issue is that your not an hour away from the City. The transportation links are poor.

I often walk from ED to Oxford Street, doesn't take me more than 1h20m to get there.

So yes I think a bus that does 1hour against walking 1hour and 20 minutes is an issue.

And southern isn't running most of the time, and the timeschedules are way off... you don't get trains every 10 minutes anymore apart from 8:10,20,30, everything else is every 20-30 minutes... thats awful and it feels like you are living out of town. Also on weekends you get reduced services and Sundays you'll barely find the station open.

Commuting from ED is BAD! Stop trying to convince yourself that its alright.

[JohnL]

titch juicy Wrote:

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> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Ok I'm told :)

> >

> > So it seems like my leave house at 8:54 and get

> > into work at 9:40 is seen as good ?

> >

> > Someone invent a transporter - or a hoverboard.

>

>

> Someone please give me a job where i can leave the

> house at 8.54am! :)

and then I fiddle with a router and switch or two, take the internet down

for some poor blighter and come home (via a pub or two)

Life isn't too bad :)