"I grew up on a council estate"

[Mick Mac]

oilworker Wrote:

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> Mick Mac - You are either a bit dim or simply

> being obtuse. Politicians come out with this sort

> of thing because they think it will make them

> appear more in touch with the "common man" or more

> clever for having risen from humble beginnings etc

> etc

"A bit dim"....how very dare you.

[Captain Scarlet]

daizie Wrote:

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> I have far more respect and interest in people who

> have come from nothing and made good, than anyone

> who had a financially or otherwise privileged

> start.

>

> However I cant stand the people who forget where

> they came from and turn into a snob .

Totally agree with you on that one..nothing worse then a working class snob!.

[SeanMacGabhann]

What exactly consitutes a working class snob?

[Captain Scarlet]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> What exactly consitutes a working class snob?

I am suprised you dont know?B)

[katie1997]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

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> What exactly consitutes a working class snob?

someone who serves panna cotta for dessert instead of angel delight?

decants a bottle of bulgarian red ?

oh, you must know what is meant by this, seriously. Its someone who acts like a tw@t as soon as they come into a bit of money and proceed to look down on people they were previously in the same boat as (no shame there either).

Not saying that they have to act all grateful and constantly be thankful for being 'working class done good' but there's definitely a type of person out there who can be more grating than your 'traditional' snob. No?

Thankfully, they're in the minority in my experience. The most amazing, intelligent people I have ever met in my life have worked their way up from nothing. But that's not to say that there aren't fantastic people out there who were born into a very privileged background either.

spot on, daizie.

[felt-tip]

so is a working class snob worse than a middle class snob?

[steveo]

Has anyone met anyone who would admit to being an upper class snob? Or a middle class one? Or one?

[reggie]

"I grew up in a 17thC house in Sussex." That's a fact.

Street Sweeper by Sly and Reggie

[felt-tip]

I knew a guy at uni who used to say "snobbery is the enemy of mediocrity".

[Santerme]

Well, I went to both....a boarding school until late into the third form and then back into the surreal world of Tulse Hill.

I found I was, perhaps, two years ahead academically, which made it kind of boring and it was easy to just drift along.

It took a kick in the pants from a particularly inspirational teacher.

The ability to coast did not exist in my boarding school.

Although able to I never put either of my daughters through private school and both excelled in the local comprehensive.

But then Thomas Haryde's, luckily is an exceptionally good example of that type of institution.

By a country mile I preferred Tulse Hill to my boarding school....and my most enduring friendships come from my time there.

There is far more than education to be considered and the social diversity and great negotiating skills I developed to survive have stood me in better stead than my University degrees.

[Jah Lush]

I went to Tulse Hill as well Santerme. It was a shit hole.

[felt-tip]

It is a minefield of adopting the correct decorum (or not) at the appropriate times so as to not be seen as 'chippy' by the middle classes or a working class snob by the working classes. And all the time whether you are adopting the correct decorum or not is judged by continually shifting, entirely subjective and often defensive audience. Oh, the woes, the woes. At least I dont have to eat Findus Crispy Pancakes any more though.

[Santerme]

I remember you saying Jah

I agree for 95 per cent it was either Hell or hi jinx's

I just picked out the bits I needed and used them to my advantage

I stand by my claim that it honed my skills as a negotiator and made you able to think and act quickly

Deconflicting situations around the world was buit on those learned skills

[Jah Lush]

It taught me to be streetwise and not much else. Mind you the last two years I hardly ever went. Eventually I walked out and told them to stick it up their arse and never went back.

[louisiana]

felt-tip Wrote:

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> so is a working class snob worse than a middle

> class snob?

Shouldn't be.

There are other kinds of snob too.

Intellectual snobs, for example, who regard anyone less intellectually endowed as a fool and idiot undeserving of human communication.

Or infamy snobs, who once they achieve fame/infamy, will only converse with those benefiting(?) from a similar rating in the fame/infamy stakes. The ones who won't interact with [Lix Hurley's term] 'civilians' (even when it is in their interests to do so).

[Jah Lush]

Or inverted snobbery: - the idea that everything typical of the higher social classes is bad and everything typical of the working class is good.

[felt-tip]

What is the worst type of snobbery?

Is one kind of snobbery better than another?

Do you get snobbery about snobbery?

[Manda]

In response to Mic Mac,

I think if it's relevant to the discussion then sometimes it's more honest to state where you are coming from (socio-economically that is), it's undoubtedly going to shape who you are and the perceptions you make, snobberies you may have (inverted or otherwise). I prefer people not to use it to justify why they think the cycle of poverty shouldn't be broken by Govt intervention, it makes me think of that whole "I'm alright Jack" Thatcherite thing... but it's true that we do have to take responsibility for ourselves and we've seen a lot of abuse of the state in recent years, so I also see why people use it like that sometimes. It can also mean you've worked your way out of poverty, which is something to be proud of.

It's obviously not relevant to say "I grew up on a council estate" if you're having a conversation about the weather, unless perhaps they get worse weather on council estates these days....

I grew up on a council estate by the way, I only mention this because there was a girl on the estate called Angelique who also kept a donkey in her flat, until the council came and took it away (animal cruelty). The weirdest thing was seeing the Donkey's face through the net curtains.

[reggie]

"The weirdest thing was seeing the Donkey's face through the net curtains."

Now.........we want more of this kind of thing on the forum.

[womanofdulwich]

My nephew did his work experience with the couoncil housing maintenace dept in Norfolk 3 years ago.

Some tenants still kept their poultry in the house,he only lasted 3 days , but it was an eye opener- maybe it he had lasted the 2 weeks he might have met a donkey too?

[Simonet]

It can also be used to say that Guys from a disadvantaged, tough background made it "against the odds" and so they are, naturally imo not so likely to be taken in by the argument/theory that disadvantage has to be mean failure in later life.

The attitude being if "we" all kept out of trouble and lived "decent" lives coming from large Estates then so can "others" before and after them if they have the desire and passion and abilty to do it and want to change their situation.

[binary_star]

There will always be people who, no matter their environment, will excel. Likewise, there will always be people that fail in life no matter what opportunities are provided for them. However, these people are extreme cases, at opposite ends of the scale. Most people are not complete winners or complete losers but the average Jo in the middle. And for that majority, a good education and upbringing is a key factor for social mobility and later success. Average Jo from Dulwich Village with average intelligence/motivation can have Mummy and Daddy buy him a good education, whereas average Jo from Peckham can't.

I read an article somewhere in the news this week about the government's recent review on poverty and life chances. It found that the life outcome of a child can be predicted by their ability level at five years of age. Five. It also found that children who start in the bottom ability range tended to stay there. The same article quoted someone from Save The Children who said that even at 19 months old, poor children start falling behind their richer friends in development. So unless we break the cycle of poor people only having access to poor education (or parenting?), I think that for the majority of babies who are born into poorer families, social mobility is a bit of a joke. For the majority that is. The exceptionally bright or motivated can always find ways to succeed.

EDIT: So I think anyone who was brought up on a council estate and has carved out a more comfortable life for themselves and is making a statement about how much they've achieved is entitled to do it and I wouldn't begrudge them that right.

[Manda]

I agree with binary_star. Spot on.

My school had a policy, they taught us not to give in to harmful "self fulfilling prophecies" which I think was very helpful in a lot of ways. It was a tough and struggling school in what was a poor area of Hackney at that time, a lot of kids were left on the waste heap, for lots of different reasons but poverty was the prevailing factor.

My mum always wanted me to go to Uni, she saw it as my "way out," so I had that and the financial support of both parents, which enabled me to stay in full time education until I was 18. Without both and a full grant, I wouldn't have dreamt of going. Only 10 or so kids in my year went, the school didn't even have a sixth form. Arriving at Uni with all those other kids from a diverse range of economic backgrounds - not many poor ones although it soon became apparent that everyone had their struggles - was the single most intimidating experience of my life but I adapted pretty quickly, after reminding myself that I did belong there.

I'm finding this discussion really illuminating.

[rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrqwef43]

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