Secondary School Allocations

[minder]

The SLP have merely reported on something that should be of interest to the local community.

Can't see how they gave a misleading impression.

That's what our local papers are for.

[Curmudgeon]

My understanding of the Kingsdale music, sport and maths scholarship is that they are a salve to the middle classes - they have no bearing on whether a child is offered a place but if they are offered a place then the child gets one to one tutoring to the value of about 1K

the money is not extra to the school budget but is assigned to those children who qualify - I would really like to see transparency on this element to be honest - where is the money coming from, which area is getting a little less for them to be able to concentrate resources on a few over the many?

I applaud their initiative but it seems to me that they start relationships with families by offering less than clarity

[Lukedaisy]

Lukedaisy Wrote:

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> Please can someone expalain to me. Kingsdale along

> with some other state schools in Southwark,

> Waverley girls for instance, have always had a bad

> reputation. Have they changed ? and if so , since

> when ?

Does anyone, at all know ?

[Curmudgeon]

different heads and senior leadership teams, some went into special measures which meant more money, capital investment in the schools providing far improved facilities (this scheme is now defunct) and different demographics of the area

[skyblue]

Could a consequence of Kingsdale's well meaning random selection criteria be that children in its locality are indirectly placed at a disadvantage to other children in the pan London application process?

This is because Kingsdale is open to all regardless of distance. However children who live further away, may also have another choice of a great school which does select only distance. This 'distance' school is not open to those children who live near Kingsdale and this is part of the reason why a secondary school void seems to have been created in this area.

Further it is Kingsdale's local children whose parents are not able to work with in the system i.e. obtain a scholarship by means of extra tutoring who are the most disadvantaged.

Random selection will only be fair for children if all schools use it.

[prickle]

skyblue Wrote:

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> Random selection will only be fair for children if

> all schools use it.

Totally agree with you.

[intexasatthe moment]

lukedaisy - Waverley became a Harris Academy in 2006 and has been improving since then .

Kingsdale went into special measures in 1996 and Steve Morrison - the headteacher - joined in 1998 since when he's transformed the school which has also undergone a major refurb .

http://www.dulwichsociety.com/2010-autumn/560-kingsdale-foundation-school

[BB100]

Curmudgeon Wrote:

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> My understanding of the Kingsdale music, sport and

> maths scholarship is that they are a salve to the

> middle classes - they have no bearing on whether a

> child is offered a place but if they are offered a

> place then the child gets one to one tutoring to

> the value of about 1K

>

> the money is not extra to the school budget but is

> assigned to those children who qualify - I would

> really like to see transparency on this element to

> be honest - where is the money coming from, which

> area is getting a little less for them to be able

> to concentrate resources on a few over the many?

Me and my mates (sic) who are not middle class, our kids get free music and sports lessons at primary and learned maths in school classrooms and we like got scholarships.

The money comes from renting out the Pod and hall at the weekends. The BBC used it last year to film Question Time. The Head also earns money from architects and engineering students visiting his award-winning building who come on a regular basis.

As regards why the Head went to Lewisham to recruit children is because, I expect, he wanted to fill all his bands and have a mixed ability school and not be one that just takes rejects from everywhere else.

Oh, and all the Lewisham residents I know that applied for Kingsdale this year were only offered Lewisham schools.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Music and Maths are closely connected:

M&M

[Ann]

Lots of other Comprehensives have specialisms whereby they can recruit usually about 10% on that basis, I believe. That's nothing new and I believe it usually entailed an entrance test outside of the normal criteria such as distance, faith etc. Kingsdale are different in that they offer scholarships in various areas but don't necessarily offer a place on that basis, ie aptitude for that particular area.

I recall from previous threads on this forum that children have been offered 'scholarships' but not ultimately given a year seven place, leading me at least to conclude that the admissions criteria is confusing at best.

I sincerely hope that all your children will find a school that suits them. If your child is motivated and have supprortive parents that counts for an awfull lot.

Ann

[Dorothy]

Ann - I do agree completely that if a child is motivated and has supportive parents then that counts for more than anything. But if you live in East Dulwich, equidistant between The Charter School and Kingsdale but outside of The Charters miniscule catchment area and with a child with no particular aptitude for music, maths or sport, then you find yourself in the teeth-grindingly frustrating position of having two excellent secondary schools on your doorstep and only the remotest of outside chances of gaining a place at either. Its the stuff of sleepless nights.

[intexasatthe moment]

Well put Dorothy ,still suffering affects of failing ( ie didn't lie to get into Charter ) to get a place at a good local secondary school here .

[ClareC]

What is the Charter catchment area?

[Fuschia]

BB100 Wrote:

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>> The money comes from renting out the Pod and hall

> at the weekends. The BBC used it last year to film

> Question Time. The Head also earns money from

> architects and engineering students visiting his

> award-winning building who come on a regular

> basis.

WEll, all of that IS part of the school budget. But a school is at liberty to provide additional tuition if it wants to and can afford it

[Alec John Moore]

I suppose, strictly speaking, it isn't really a catchment area in that it is not bounded by geographical lines. Rather it is based on distance from school so it depends on who applies as well as where you live. This means that if lots of people from just up the road apply then those further away will not be offered a place. They publish furthest from school stats for successful applicants and that varies from year to year. Living in the Barry Road area we are stretching it a bit but we did put them 2nd on our list. Our son got into Kingsdale, by the way.

[intexasatthe moment]

After looked after children ,siblings ,and I presume children with statements ,priority is given according to how close you live to the school .

How close you need to be to get in will vary according to who else has applied so the catchment area will vary from year to year .

[Queenie23]

Kingsdale turned the school around by appealing to the middle classes and they did this by selection pure and simple. The fact that they don't have a catchment area is in order to select to their own criteria. They have also damaged all the other local schools by taking away (and not just middle class kids!) alot of the talented children who otherwise would have been distributed around the local area. Ive said it before but Kingsdale are very good at putting out propaganda about their school. The wonderful GSCE results that they went on about proved to be (under the new government standards) just 4% passrate!

I'm not trying to belittle their successful achievements but please people why is everybody so hung up about Kingsdale -there are equally good schools out there! And Debi- you obviously work at Kingsdale. Please be honest and say that you might be biased.

[intexasatthe moment]

My reading of Kingsdale's admission policy is that they divide the intake into 3 ability bands and then allocate places by giving priority to SEN , looked after children , scholorships,and siblings and then allocate remainder by lottery .

I think it says that 15% of places are scholorships .

Is that selection ? Perhaps I'm not getting it .

Wonder ,by the way , how many scholorship places go to people in the 2 lower ability bands ?

When you say new government standards ,do you mean Gove's baccalaureate thing ?

I think lots of really good schools seem to have done poorly if you judge them by how many passes in a random selection of subjects ( which they didn't know they had to offer to pass Gove's retrospective test ) they got .

I think it's great Kingsdale have improved ,it's geographical position has always worked against it in the past .

[Queenie23]

Of course it's great that Kingsdale has improved! The more good local state schools the better. You misunderstand me, I was simply trying to point out that there are plenty of good schools in the area (Prendegast,Forest Hill, Sydenham girls, Charter, Harris Academies, Askes, Bacons) so why does everybody get so hung up on Kingsdale? And I referred to the Gove bacc test because I was trying to prove that Kingsdale is maybe not as wonderful as they would like us to believe.

I don't really understand Kingsdales scholarship places - why offer someone a scholarship only to disappoint them later when they don't get a place?

[intexasatthe moment]

I'm not sure I understand either - I guess it means that you're tested and found to be scholorship material and then ,once the intake is divided into 3 bands ,the scholorship people get a place and don't have to be selected by lottery ?

I've not looked at Kingsdale's explanation of how they deal with oversubscription for scholorships - will look later when I have time .

[prickle]

In my experience, Kingsdale do not explain how they deal with oversubscription for scholarships. As I understand it, if a scholarship child attends Kingsdale, they must attend with a scholarship ie they will only be offered a place if another scholarship child drops out.

I asked Kingsdale to tell us where we were on the waiting list but they could not.

The whole system is opaque. There must be very many disappointed scholarship pupils out there now waiting for another chance. For their sake, please can someone from Kingsdale spell out what your policy is?

[intexasatthe moment]

Mmm , Kingsdale's site ,under Admissions says

Please refer to scholarship oversubscription criteria for more information

but I couldn't find the details .

Maybe it's available on request ?

[Queenie23]

What is the point of offering more scholarships than places then?

[Dorothy]

"After looked after children ,siblings ,and I presume children with statements ,priority is given according to how close you live to the school"

Which school are you referring to intexas?

[prickle]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> Mmm , Kingsdale's site ,under Admissions says

> Please refer to scholarship oversubscription

> criteria for more information

> but I couldn't find the details .

> Maybe it's available on request ?

Quite, this is what I mean about the process being opaque. The criteria should be on the web site and not just available on request!