God I hate the Guardian

[El Pibe]

> ...and yet still people don't see that...

eh? I've agreed with you that was teh problem, it was the community/culture thing i had issue with.

Well maybe the incompetent, blame bucking culture in the public sector....

> Nick Griffin and that Tommy twat from the EDF can claim the moral high ground

really?!

[MrBen]

> head shots all round. bodies left on peckham rye

> for the dogs to eat.

Definitely not the words of a guardian regular. My money's on the Telegraph.

(I read them all btw)

[MrBen]

And FT Weekend on a Saturday (apart from the grotesque How to Spend it)

[El Pibe]

jesus, papers, actually made from paper....at the weekend.......*sighs nostalgically*

[StraferJack]

you can buy them (The English Ones) in the sticks in Ireland, EP

I do when I'm over anyway

[El Pibe]

nothing to do with where i am, more the ability to sit down with one.

[Loz]

It's been interesting to see the Guardian squirm over the past few days. The question will be how much they suppressed in the name of not wanting to be seen as 'racist'.

Curiously, the only journo at the Gruin that looks like coming out of this with any credibility is Julie sodding Bindel, who raised the issue half a decade ago.

[vgrant]

???? Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> vgrant Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > We are not in a position to point

> > fingers any any one group -

> >

> >Yes we are, Guardian reading liberals in

> positions of power who could have acted and who

> failed to act based on their fear of being accused

> of being racist. That's the only point I'm making

> here...and yet still people don't see that...

>

> Sad day for them (and us) when Nick Griffin and

> that Tommy twat from the EDF can claim the moral

> high ground

>

> but far sadder lives for 1000s of kids they were

> me

edited.

why bother

[Otta]

Jeremy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't really have the knowledge to draw any

> conclusions about the link (or lack of) between

> the Rotherham abuse cases and a culture of female

> oppression.

I very much doubt anyone else on this thread does quite frankly.

> But it would seem wrong to me to lay

> the blame at anyone or anything other than the

> offenders themselves.

Indeed.

But why let that get in the way of some lazy mud slinging.

[Loz]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Jeremy Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------

>

> > But it would seem wrong to me to lay the blame at anyone or anything other than the

> > offenders themselves.

>

>

> Indeed.

>

> But why let that get in the way of some lazy mud slinging.

Are you saying that if there are people who knew what was happening and were in a position of being able to do something, but failed to act, you are saying there is no blame to laid?

[vgrant]

I have decided to take no further part in the hateful shitfest but I have taken names. oh yes. I will however add that jack Straw did raise this nigh on a decade ago regarding his Blackburn constituency. So mebbes ex NUS president and all round political tugster jack Straw should be the new darling of the EDF monday club. See if you can shoehorn this into any further fourm conversation, ideally using a Jack Straw : Strawman analogy for extra points

[Otta]

I'm interested to hear what people think about the culture (not specifically this case) of just calling for resignations from heads of service whenever something bad happens?

To me it's just a crap way of showing the country (and the breying press) that action has been taken, whilst not actually doing anything to fix problems.

That is not to say that Jobs should never be lost given proper investigation, but it seems that a quickscapegoated figurehead is the preferred option for the hordes.

[Otta]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Otta Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Jeremy Wrote:

> >

> -------------------------------------------------

> >

> > > But it would seem wrong to me to lay the blame

> at anyone or anything other than the

> > > offenders themselves.

> >

> >

> > Indeed.

> >

> > But why let that get in the way of some lazy mud

> slinging.

>

> Are you saying that if there are people who knew

> what was happening and were in a position of being

> able to do something, but failed to act, you are

> saying there is no blame to laid?

Er, no.

[steveo]

Because it masks the fact that no one will be prosecuted for any of these offences

[Otta]

My point is actually that this shouldn't be about blame and the whole blame culture we live in. It should be about finding out exactly how the hell these things were allowed to happen, then blaming those that are actually to blame.

[El Pibe]

as usual its all Blair's fault for introducing cultures of target led managerialism and refusal to accept responsibility for anything into the public sector [partial] ;-)

[steveo]

I didn't understand any of that but yes, Blair's fault

[Otta]

Happy to blame Blair for anything, but if the public sector weren;t so guarded in this country, they'd get slaughtered for each and every decision they made about EVERYTHING.

It's shit basically.

[Loz]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> as usual its all Blair's fault for introducing

> cultures of target led managerialism and refusal

> to accept responsibility for anything into the

> public sector ;-)

Surely you can find some way of taking the blame all the way back to Maggie?

[El Pibe]

> Because it masks the fact that no one will be prosecuted for any of these offences

Didn't 5 perpetrators go down for it (admittedly tip of iceberg apparently) or do you mean in the council, police force etc?

[Otta]

Well actually, it was her gov that initially introduced the American economic models which Blair's lot progressed to performance indicators in pub sector (square peg, round hole).

So basically it's the Americans' fault.

[El Pibe]

Maggie!?!? gawd rest 'er soul, *doffs cap* awful dusty in 'ere innit, I 'ad that Russel Brand in the back o' me cab the uvver day, wanker.

[El Pibe]

> So basically it's the Americans' fault.

Yaaaay :D

[Mick Mac]

MrBen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And FT Weekend on a Saturday (apart from the

> grotesque How to Spend it)

We believe you MrB. Honest guv.

[MrBen]

Diamond encrusted mobile phones?

Snorks would vomit on the spot.