God I hate the Guardian

[????]

*tilts hat/windmill*

[Loz]

PD - It is from a t-shirt available from the Daily Mash.

Edited, becuase the img tag seems to have stopped working.

[El Pibe]

here you go

 

[El Pibe]

They do this one too PD

 

[Loz]

This may be a little bit of intellectual snobbery, but I liken the Mail/Sun/Mirror, etc outpourings to the stuff you get from your stereotypical cabbie - not stuff you want to hear, but you sort of shrug, sigh and tune out. Arguing would be like 'teaching a pig to sing'.

But the Guardian I see as being like David Starkey - you look and think, "all that education and that is what you come out with?" You just kind of expect better.

(Yes, I know they are not politically at all similar, but that's not the analogy.)

[El Pibe]

I had an interesting cabbie experience in Cornwall this weekend.

I asked if anyone in cornwall really thought of it as a separate country. He told me that he doesn't do politics, ok fair enough...but continued that they don't like foreigners down here.

Apparently the English are just about alright...you know...the white ones....

It culminated in some nonsense that involved solving problems with nuclear weapons......

awwwwkwarddd......

Quickly steered to pronunciation of place names, safer territory barring some anti american stuff (they try too hard and get everything wrong apparently)

[numbers]

Thanks to Loz and El Pibe for the pics. Absolutely bang on, I had just nicked the strapline from the bottom of the article posted by SJ. Didn't realise the Daily Mash did a spoof t-shirt of it in same vein as their DM one.

Parkdrive - the Mail and the Sun are despicable but this thread is about the Guardian hence my comment. Also, it wasn't genuine 'venom' 'scorn' or 'derision' on my part although I can see why you'd think that if you hadn't fully read to the bottom of the article that sparked the re-emergence of this thread.

Otta - they're definitely wrong about the spelling of bellend! :)

[Parkdrive]

numbers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thanks to Loz and El Pibe for the pics. Absolutely

> bang on, I had just nicked the strapline from the

> bottom of the article posted by SJ. Didn't

> realise the Daily Mash did a spoof t-shirt of it

> in same vein as their DM one.

>

> Parkdrive - the Mail and the Sun are despicable

> but this thread is about the Guardian hence my

> comment. Also, it wasn't genuine 'venom' 'scorn'

> or 'derision' on my part although I can see why

> you'd think that if you hadn't fully read to the

> bottom of the article that sparked the

> re-emergence of this thread.

>

I did read the article, and while I agree with many of the comments I still don't get the need for a thread dedicated to this subject. In the interests of balance and fair play a similar thread should be dedicated to rubbishing the Mail, Sun, Telegraph, Times. After all is said and done EDFers pride themselves on fair play and balanced argument don't they?

[numbers]

Park drive, you're an EDF-er. If you feel so strongly, why not start a thread about it.

That's like me going on the X factor thread & complaining that no-one has set up a thread to bash Strictly come dancing.

[david_carnell]

Yeah but if you had a thread for the Mail/Sun it would get tiresome to have to hyperlink to every story outlining why this one is particularly inaccurate or offensive.

At least in the Grauniad it's relatively rare (or just weekly in Polly Toynbee's case).

[Parkdrive]

numbers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Park drive, you're an EDF-er. If you feel so

> strongly, why not start a thread about it.

Clearly I'm not that arsed. But just wanted to see what sort of reaction I'd get to a request for balance and fair play. And now I know.

> That's like me going on the X factor thread &

> complaining that no-one has set up a thread to

> bash Strictly come dancing.

Really? No it isn't.

[El Pibe]

weirdly combining a couple of different threads and strands, here's a stuart heritage CIF piece on the cost of living where he writes the word "ballache" which made me chuckle after bellendgate because i pronounced it "bal?sh" in my head and wondered what the hell one of them was for a moment....

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/30/house-prices-capital-overpriced-london?CMP=fb_gu

[Loz]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yeah but if you had a thread for the Mail/Sun it would get tiresome to have to hyperlink to every

> story outlining why this one is particularly inaccurate or offensive.

>

> At least in the Grauniad it's relatively rare (or just weekly in Polly Toynbee's case).

Polly's not so bad. The worst charge you can level at her is being a bit of a rehasher of Labour PR releases.

But there is Jessica Valenti, who seems to go out of her way to be wildly inaccurate and wildly offensive, and sadly gets published every couple of days. She could move to the Mail tomorrow, though even they might think she's a bit too offensive.

[El Pibe]

George Monbiot has been really sh!t of late, I used to quite like him.

[Loz]

El Pibe Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> George Monbiot has been really sh!t of late, I used to quite like him.

I didn't always agree with his views (in fact, more not than often), but I liked reading his stuff as he does set out his arguments well and back them with credible stats and sources. But, agreed, he seems to have jumped the shark of late.

[El Pibe]

Today's is a typical post-shark article.

I'd actually made a vaguely similar point, but I like to think i did it rather than better. He manages to fail at being analytical, thoughtful, satirical or even absurd; the fact that i'm not sure which he was aiming for propbably says it all.

He should probably stick to economics.

[numbers]

Parkdrive Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> numbers Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Park drive, you're an EDF-er. If you feel so

> > strongly, why not start a thread about it.

>

> Clearly I'm not that arsed. But just wanted to see

> what sort of reaction I'd get to a request for

> balance and fair play. And now I know.

So let me be clear, YOU can't be arsed to start a thread about it but you expect ME to take a stand for 'balance and fair play' by starting a new thread? Are you serious? Or do you hold every other registered user that hasn't started a thread into account too?

> > That's like me going on the X factor thread &

> > complaining that no-one has set up a thread to

> > bash Strictly come dancing.

>

>

> Really? No it isn't.

Same principle. I can't be arsed explaining it.

[Robert Poste's Child]

Opinion pieces are always going to enrage some people because they're driven by the newspaper's political agenda (and journos building their own profile), when in reality most of us hold more conflicting opinions than that allows for. The culture section's great, though, and the Saturday edition is still enough to see you through a weekend.

[Parkdrive]

numbers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Parkdrive Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > numbers Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Park drive, you're an EDF-er. If you feel so

> > > strongly, why not start a thread about it.

> >

> > Clearly I'm not that arsed. But just wanted to

> see

> > what sort of reaction I'd get to a request for

> > balance and fair play. And now I know.

>

> So let me be clear, YOU can't be arsed to start a

> thread about it but you expect ME to take a stand

> for 'balance and fair play' by starting a new

> thread? Are you serious? Or do you hold every

> other registered user that hasn't started a thread

> into account too?

>

> > > That's like me going on the X factor thread &

> > > complaining that no-one has set up a thread

> to

> > > bash Strictly come dancing.

> >

> >

> > Really? No it isn't.

>

> Same principle. I can't be arsed explaining it.

No it isn't

[david_carnell]

I'm a fan but there are some columnists I just have to skip past for my own mental health:

Lucy Mangan

Barbara Ellen

Michele Hanson

But I love:

Barnay Ronay (absurdist look at sport)

Seamus Milne

Martin Kelner

Laura Barton

But then equally there are some great columnists at other papers. I'm always interested in what Peter Oborne has to say and Michael Deacon is by far and away the best political sketch writer.

[El Pibe]

even a stopped clock etc.

excellent article on the wrongs of muscular secularism.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/25/-sp-karen-armstrong-religious-violence-myth-secular

I love Karen Armstrong, she has great instincts and empathy for religious history, even if she does play a bit fast and loose with the, you know, history part of it to fit her narrative sometimes.

But this is a very good, brief sweeping overview of how the west has transformed and that in many respects the evils we see and decry in the islamic world really IS a defence against a long tradition of very deadly cultural imperialism by the west.

Of course that's not to say ISIS are a nice bunch or we should let them get on with it if its in our power to protect the victims of violence.

But it's worth remembering that in getting to where we are 10s of millions of Europeans died and many tens of millions round the world followed in the wake of our secular rebirth. Society is a lumbering beast and when it changes death usually follows in its wake.

[????]

but EP - there are huge, huge swathes of the world where secularism and the values of the enlightment are being pushed back by religous dogma in a way that wasn't the case as recently as the 70s and 80s. It's a cliche but the PLO of the 1970s slept witch each over, smoked fags, wore flares and mini-dresses and discussed marxism - is Hamas like that? Turkey is increasing turning away from the liberal values of wotsisname (the post war founder of modern turkey, cant be arsed to googfe); places like Cairo as recently as 20 years ago had reasonable numbers of bars/nightlife and woman, including locals, could wear what they wanted, no longer. There is a revival in at least some head covering among daughters whose mum's didn't cover up at all. Even an established democracy like indonesia is showing some worrying signs of rolling back liberalism. And for a non-muslim bias - a significant factor in the failure of the peace process in plaestine/israel is the settlers - Ultra-Orthodox jews, where were they during the Kibbutz phrase (Kibbitsism with its secular socialism is almost non-existent now).

[numbers]

Parkdrive Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> numbers Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Parkdrive Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > numbers Wrote:

> > >

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > > -----

> > > > Park drive, you're an EDF-er. If you feel

> so

> > > > strongly, why not start a thread about it.

> > >

> > > Clearly I'm not that arsed. But just wanted

> to

> > see

> > > what sort of reaction I'd get to a request

> for

> > > balance and fair play. And now I know.

> >

> > So let me be clear, YOU can't be arsed to start

> a

> > thread about it but you expect ME to take a

> stand

> > for 'balance and fair play' by starting a new

> > thread? Are you serious? Or do you hold every

> > other registered user that hasn't started a

> thread

> > into account too?

> >

> > > > That's like me going on the X factor thread

> &

> > > > complaining that no-one has set up a thread

> > to

> > > > bash Strictly come dancing.

> > >

> > >

> > > Really? No it isn't.

> >

> > Same principle. I can't be arsed explaining it.

>

>

> No it isn't

In your opinion. Not mine.

[El Pibe]

if you two are going to have a tit for tat touched you last type thing, can you dispense with the quote this message button.

[El Pibe]

But that's rather the point quids. That secularism was whacked all of a sudden on top of various societies, some of which weren't *ever* buying it, except among well to do elites, and this is the fallout.

The PLO were intellectual communist revolutionaries, not a popular movement.