Begging Outside M&S on LL

[John2598]

Does anyone else feel uncomfortable with the begging outside M&S? on LL. I always feel awkward saying no I have no change when walking out with my shopping bags.

[lavender27]

Yes, any beggar that sits or stands outside any shop, always makes me feel uncomfortable, I have given in the past. But it makes no difference as that just encourages them to come back. Also the Big issue people, say no more. Some of them smoke outside the shop and it smells gross, also the smoke probably blows into the shop, which cannot be a good thing. I had mentioned it to the staff in there, but they didn't seem the blindest bit interested.

[singalto]

I don?t go into M&S if the beggar is there and cross the road to avoid passing him.

[DulwichFox]

I cant remember if it was the Co-Op or M&S, But a couple of days ago there was a guy

behind me getting very irate as we walked along Lordship Lane.

He was swearing and saying 'Who the F*** is that'

There was a guy sitting on the floor outside one of the stores.

The guy behind me tore into the guy on the floor saying 'Oiy you cannot sit on MY Pitch.

they guy jumped up and just said 'Alright mate' and he left. I do not think he was actually begging.

He did not have all the usual 'paraphernalia' associated with begging. Blanket, Sign, Cup for cash, Dog.

My point is that there seems to be some pecking order associated with aggression and threating behaviour.

I do not think some of these people are in genuine need. Anyone who was, would soon be ousted

[JohnL]

I'll give them a ? sometimes .. but if they ever think I'm a soft touch and follow me into a shop I'll turn :)

Passively sitting there with a pot is OK. They sit in a praying position in Holborn - that's a bit uncomfortable.

[se22cat]

The Big issue seller told me they are brothers, have seen both of them finish their "shift" and change into much better clothes on the same spot and then walk off counting their earnings. So many professional beggars nowadays sadly.

[uncleglen]

Begging is illegal.....

[i*Rate]

Does anyone remember the 'one-legged' man who was sitting outside the Co-Op begging a while back? He also had a pitch at Sainsbury's car park, Dog Kennel Hill.

He used to change legs when he got cramp so that he had two or else he would tuck one leg under him and put a bag in front so that you could not see it. I saw a young women get off her motorbike and come to talk to him in a very concerned way outside the Co-Op once on a Sunday morning.

But my wife and I saw him a few times pushing his trolley around Sainsbury's doing his shopping so his 'bad leg' could'nt have been too bad.

Anyway, live and let live, I don't really know if he was homeless of not so I cannot condemn the man.

It was on the news recently about rough sleeping increasing - very sad. I'm sure Saint Theresa will sort it out.

Cheers.

[DulwichFox]

[jimlad48]

There are a few of them that congregate outside Denmark Hill station now, blocking the entrance and generally making a nuisance of themselves. Not local, and only there for a couple of hours at a time.

I wish they could be moved on, its intimidating and uncomfortable to walk past, and doesnt help solve problem of homelessness. There was one outside Sainsburies the other day too on Camberwell road, so they are spreasding about.

I always work to assumption that if begging wasn't profitable, people wouldnt do it - so the sooner people stop giving money to them, the quicker the problem goes away.

[El Presidente]

Clearly a professional begging syndicate operating in the area. And clearly a profitable one judging by all the people on here who give them money just so they can feel a bit better about themselves.

[JohnL]

the one I see around who begs is in a bad situation. but he brings it on himself - in and out of jail etc and when I asked what he thought of jail his face said it all. He's moved districts now - more likely to be approached by him in Waterloo or Elephant.

The professionals don't want to talk much as talking to them would expose them.

[dimples]

Se22Cat we too saw one of the beggars change clothes round the side of the white stuff put the cup of money into his smartish coat and with a nice bag tucked under his arm ran for the bus !

[Jules-and-Boo]

yes - it's organised. And quit profitable. To be avoided in my opinion.

The Big Issue sellers are registered and supported in getting back on 'their feet' - so do not lump them into the same category

[Jennys]

Every supermarket now seems to have their own beggar. Consider giving to one of the charities that help homeless people then you don?t feel guilty not giving to the beggars in Lordship Lane. Emmaus for example or St Mungo?s.

[Raeburn]

Have a heart guys,

Crushing cuts and austerity measures (whatever tf that means....) means there's increasing levels of people in unfortunate circumstances and on the streets. Yes, that means it's more visible, even in cutesy Dulwich and yes, even outside of M&S, and - I've got more news - it's only going to get more apparent as public services are dismantled further.

OP, if you do want to do something, you could ask if you can get the person anything while you're in the store (warning; this might lead to a conversation and you realising the person is human). If you want to assuage the guilt conveniently without having to converse, drop something into the Foodbank box, or give to a local hostel or charity directly. If you can't donate money or you'd rather not, get involved with campaigning for better support, volunteer, contact your Councillor, visit the surgery, write to an MP, anything. Just don't get involved with hateful stirrings on the internet :)

[se22cat]

It's not hateful stirrings - pretty much every "beggar" on the streets are professional and paying for their pitch. Have a look around Guy's Hospital, you can see "beggars" with the same setup around each corner, you'd have to be blind to think these people are genuine. This has caused genuine homeless in need to be in even worse situations than when begging became organised on a wider scale than in the West End.

Like Jennys said, give to a charity, if you can, I give to Celia Hammond and the PDSA personally as animals can't help themselves.

[John2598]

I my be old fashioned, but everything I have I've worked for, its funny you never see these guys with a sign saying "what can I do for you today" I was moving a large number of bricks to my back garden yesterday and would have loved a hand and been happy to give someone money for their help, and maybe even a M&S sandwich

[El Presidente]

Raeburn Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Have a heart guys,

>

> Crushing cuts and austerity measures (whatever tf

> that means....) means there's increasing levels of

> people in unfortunate circumstances and on the

> streets. Yes, that means it's more visible, even

> in cutesy Dulwich and yes, even outside of M&S,

> and - I've got more news - it's only going to get

> more apparent as public services are dismantled

> further.

>

> OP, if you do want to do something, you could ask

> if you can get the person anything while you're in

> the store (warning; this might lead to a

> conversation and you realising the person is

> human). If you want to assuage the guilt

> conveniently without having to converse, drop

> something into the Foodbank box, or give to a

> local hostel or charity directly. If you can't

> donate money or you'd rather not, get involved

> with campaigning for better support, volunteer,

> contact your Councillor, visit the surgery, write

> to an MP, anything. Just don't get involved with

> hateful stirrings on the internet :)

Professional begging has nothing whatsoever to do with so called 'crushing cuts'. It is a business like behaviour exploiting people like you who feel the need to 'assuage the guilt'.

There is nothing to be guilty about by avoiding giving money to scam artists who divert cash from other much better causes. Even homeless charities warn against giving to these kind of people.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Another point of view: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/why-you-should-give-money-directly-and-unconditionally-homeless-people

[alice]

cold winds of change.

Another rough sleeper got endless solicitude a month ago

[Raeburn]

se22cat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's not hateful stirrings

- any bugger

- if the beggar is there and cross the road to avoid

- all the usual 'paraphernalia' associated with begging. Blanket, Sign, Cup for cash, Dog.

In the first three responses, not exactly feeling the love from ED.

El Presidente Wrote:

> Professional begging has nothing whatsoever to do

> with so called 'crushing cuts'.

Of course it does. On the simplest level if there was adequate support for those in need, the pavements wouldn't have people asking for help, anyone on the streets would either be picked up by the services to see what help they might need or stand out as a scammer. Unless you know otherwise?

Yes, there are professional beggars, acting aggressively over preferred spots, but the OP's q was re. feeling uncomfortable with the situation at M&S and the thread has descended into 'Professional beggars in ED'. I tried to give some alternative positive ways to respond, which - you'll notice - reduce the chances of being exploited and parting with cash if you aren't comfortable.

As I say, it's only going to become a bigger issue (no joke intended) so buckle up. I'm out of here, good luck with the thread. I'll leave on M&S's slogan .....'Spend It Well'

[fishbiscuits]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Another point of view:

> https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/10/w

> hy-you-should-give-money-directly-and-unconditiona

> lly-homeless-people

I mainly agree with the article. But it does ignore the issue of aggressive begging (not something I've experienced round here recently, but certainly did "back in the day"). Aggressive beggars need to be the exception to the rule... don't give them a penny.

[RubyGraeme]

They are brothers, and not homeless. I know they have housing, and their lovely mum lives round the corner from me. They have alcohol and drug addiction problems. I think their mum would be horrified if she knew. They used to pester her for money but that seems to have stopped, obviously they're making enough from asking for money outside M&S. They had a brother until five or six years ago who died from circumstances to do with his addictions, very sad. Say "Hello, Chris" or Hello, Danny" but please don't give them any money.

[JohnL]

El Presidente Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Raeburn Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Have a heart guys,

> >

> > Crushing cuts and austerity measures (whatever

> tf

> > that means....) means there's increasing levels

> of

> > people in unfortunate circumstances and on the

> > streets. Yes, that means it's more visible,

> even

> > in cutesy Dulwich and yes, even outside of M&S,

> > and - I've got more news - it's only going to

> get

> > more apparent as public services are dismantled

> > further.

> >

> > OP, if you do want to do something, you could

> ask

> > if you can get the person anything while you're

> in

> > the store (warning; this might lead to a

> > conversation and you realising the person is

> > human). If you want to assuage the guilt

> > conveniently without having to converse, drop

> > something into the Foodbank box, or give to a

> > local hostel or charity directly. If you can't

> > donate money or you'd rather not, get involved

> > with campaigning for better support, volunteer,

> > contact your Councillor, visit the surgery,

> write

> > to an MP, anything. Just don't get involved

> with

> > hateful stirrings on the internet :)

>

> Professional begging has nothing whatsoever to do

> with so called 'crushing cuts'. It is a business

> like behaviour exploiting people like you who feel

> the need to 'assuage the guilt'.

>

> There is nothing to be guilty about by avoiding

> giving money to scam artists who divert cash from

> other much better causes. Even homeless charities

> warn against giving to these kind of people.

If this was true then it's AOK to burn ?20 pound notes in front of them or kick their stuff down the road.

I would if they were (professional scammers) as they'd soon get demoralised - but they all aren't