Riots in Tottenham......

[DJKillaQueen]

A couple of days ago a gunman fired shots at Police and in turn was shot dead.

Now local youths and people have attacked the Police Station and are rioting.....

Sky News Live Feed

[Thomas Micklewright]

Shame its not really putting a good argument across is it?

Did mark fire first, is it a fact?

[DJKillaQueen]

He was carrying a gun and given plenty of opportunity to surrender I would think......the Police don't gun down people at the drop of a hat.

The rioters are I think just bored local young men on the whole.

[LadyDeliah]

Hard to know what happened so not sure how you can be so certain DJKQ.

I'm glued to BBC News 24. I feel it's the start of something larger and think the ease of communication via BBM and Facebook differentiates any current rioting from rioting of the past.

Added to this, the fragility of the US and UK financial systems and possible resulting depression make me feel that things may change beyond recognition in the near future.

[Loz]

... and a bunch of opportunistic looters.

[alice]

It is so rare for the police to shoot and kill a member of the public - A full press statement and local meetings should have happened immediately - hopefully tonight will play out slowly slowly but tomorrow the police need to attempt belatedly to dispel some of the rumours and half-truths circulating. Their so far silence is worrying.

[Thomas Micklewright]

Such a shame re the looting.

[DJKillaQueen]

I agree LD.....and I think the Police are worried about the fb and twitter communications. It's going to be a long night for them, and those of us watching too!

There'll be an inquiry of course. The man that was shot had been under surveillance and one remembers for example Charles de Menezes, and that the Police can get it very wrong. But Menezes was not armed, because he was not the suspect under surveillance. In this case, Mark was the one under surveillance, and under surveillance by specialist gun crime devisions like Trident. A firearm was recovered from the scene and shots were fired from it. The inquiry will look at who shot first etc but at the end of the day, Mark put himself in that situation. That doesn't mean he automatically deserved to be shot dead but when you come under the radar of those Police divisions, there's usually something that the wider community needs protection from.

Having said all that though, I agree that it's unwise to speculate too much on what any inquiry might conclude. But that goes for the rioters too - no excuse for what they are doing.

*And given how long it takes me to type with one hand at the moment, I'm probaly several posts behind the one I'm replying too by now as well lol*

[DJKillaQueen]

I completely agree with that Alice. I would also say that the comments of some community leaders over the past two days have only served to fuel speculation and rumour too.

[ratty]

Shameful, but sadly likely to spark similar scenes elsewhere.

[Marmora Man]

Am I misreading this?

A man, armed with an illegal weapon, took shots at the police. One policeman we understand from Friday's press only narrowly avoided serious injury when his radio deflected a bullet. The armed gunman was shot dead whilst firing at police. Tough.

To condone, or even to try and understand, the position of those rioting and looting is completely illogical. To go further and try to give their actions some spurious international significance by suggesting this criminal activity is somehow related to, of a symptom of, the world wide financial crisis is to demonstrate a truly unbelievable moral relativism.

[Santerme]

I love this idea that the rioters are calling for justice.

Actually justice was done when an armed man fired on a police officer and was shot and killed.

Someone it appears we are on first name terms with.

And the complete PC'fication of the Met becomes apparent when the local commander comes out and calls that incident tragic as the offender was killed....the real tragedy would have been if the police officer had been more gravely injured or killed.

This cotton wool society needs reversing.

[zeban]

I completely agree with all of the above.

This is a disgusting disgrace, absolutely nothing can jusitify such acts of violence.

[LadyDeliah]

And the police always tell the truth as can ne seen by the De Menezes shooting, obviously!

Have you not wondered why the cab driver who was ferrying the victim around has not been asked what happened by the media? He was an eye witness. If his story is very different from the official police story, I imagine local people might discover the discrepancy and get angry about it.

This is pure speculation on my part as I have no inside information, but neither do any of you. Swallow the police official line if you choose to, but don't be surprised if others are more sceptical.

[Otta]

I must admit this totally passed me by, this thread was the first I'd heard of it.

Have to agree with Marmora Man, although I also agree that this could be the spark that lights a torch paper for young idiots looking for any reason to kick off.

[ratty]

Word is that the police are involved in one big fat lie, hence the anger.

[Santerme]

I think recovering a bullet from a police radio is fairly damning evidence.

Who cares how angry the local residents are....rioting is never the answer.

Funny how they target their anger on the shops with plasma TV's though...I guess they need to keep up with the local news in HD!

[ratty]

ratty Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Word is that the police are involved in one big

> fat lie, hence the anger.

Can I just quantify that I do not in anyway condone the rioters, who are just common thieves afaiac. Tony Parsons has made some good comments on twitter. They are robbing off their own and the local businesses being looted will probably never recover!!

[LadyDeliah]

One of the community leaders just said on BBC News 24 that witnesses saw Duggan shot at point blank range by the police. There had been a groundswell of protest against recent deaths at the hands of the police, including recently, Smiley Culture and the riot may have been sparked when a female protester was batoned by the police.

Makes more sense than the police version.

[Santerme]

The riot was a bunch of criminals filling their boots...

The killing of the armed criminal was a response to him being in possession of a firearm and discharging it at a police officer.

Shooting him at point blank range, well if that was how close they were, that's what happened.

I think you must have been looking for the Guardian's comment pages and took a wrong turn somewhere along the information superwebway.

[DulwichFox]

People of East Dulwich expressing their views based on Hearsay...

How many of you were there or ever even know the area. ??

The guy had a gun. The guy shot first...

The Police did this... The Police did that...

Talk like that is nothing better to inflame a sensitive sisuation...

[LadyDeliah]

But was he executed?

You may think that's no loss, but if it was a police execution and they are lying to cover their tracks, people close to him are not going to be happy.

Also it gives every youth with a grudge against the police, justification in their mind to fight back against the police with whatever weapons they have at their disposal.

[Otta]

I think LadyD that you are desperate for the police to be in the wrong here.

You may well be correct, Christ knows there are some big lies with the police. However, I don't see how one lot of speculation can make more sense than another lot. I am sure that things will be clearer once the dust settles.

As for the looters, total scum.

[Santerme]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> People of East Dulwich expressing their views

> based on Hearsay...

>

> How many of you were there or ever even know the

> area. ??

>

> The guy had a gun. The guy shot first...

>

> The Police did this... The Police did that...

>

> Talk like that is nothing better to inflame a

> sensitive sisuation...

Well, I am at a loss to understand how we can inflame the situation further.

A bunch of local scrotes loot, riot and commit arson, that's a factual representation of events not speculation.

[Alan Medic]

That is the police line but a supposed eyewitness on the night in question suggested otherwise. I don't support the rioting for one minute but I don't always believe the official version of events either.