police in east dulwich (or "some kids detained on Grove Vale")

[sebadoh]

A bit of commotion on grove vale, 4 kids chased and detained. Fair play to the police they turned up in force and wasn't messing around, one of the little criminals looked like he was going to wet himself :) A policeman said to me he wished they could do a lot more to them. im sure a lot of us feel the same

[Chick]

How do you know they were little criminals? Innocent until proven guilty etc. Police want to do a lot more to them? Like what, give them a good kicking?

How old were these little ciminals?

[Frankito]

Does it really matter? I totally welcome this tougher approach, if it restores calm and makes us all feel safer then so be it.

And anyway, if you haven't done anything wrong, there is no need to run.

[Alex K]

Chick Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How do you know they were little criminals?

> Innocent until proven guilty etc. Police want to

> do a lot more to them? Like what, give them a good

> kicking?

>

> How old were these little ciminals?

A good kicking is a start. Give them a PROPER grudge against society, that would. And make the rest of us feel better.

[Spaceman]

I'm glad the police are allowed to do there jobs finally!

Long may it continue!!

[Green Goose]

Spot on Frankito. I don't normally read Max Hastings and I dare say very few people in E.D. do also, but I think his analysis is very accurate and incisive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html

GG

[sebadoh]

Chick Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How do you know they were little criminals?

> Innocent until proven guilty etc. Police want to

> do a lot more to them? Like what, give them a good

> kicking?

>

> How old were these little ciminals?

They were running away from the police, so unless they were training for the olympics they were up to something. And 5 police cars do not chase people for nothing. Probably around 16 years old.

It was good to see action being taken, especially outside my flat.

[Spaceman]

What a fantastic article Green Goose, thanks for posting or i never would have come across it.

[mockney piers]

You are kidding me, Max used to write a decent account of people shooting at each other, this is purest tosh, he knows about as much about our communities, condescending from his gentlemans' club over a fine beaujolais, as judge bloody pickles, twat.

[Green Goose]

The politicians, the bleeding heart liberals, the PC brigade, the smart layers paid from legal aid and the lenient judges have reduced the police force into a powerless, disrespected and ineffectual body. They all should be totally ashamed of themselves.

When are the spineless English authorities going to actually do something to save this country from total disintegration?

Just watch the Yobs go to court and get a slap on the wrist as usual.

Where I came from a curfew would have been declared and any looters breaking the curfew would be shot on sight.

Elsewhere, like in Russia, the police would simply drive a truck at speed into any crowd that was looting and committing arson. If anyone turned up at hospital later for treatment they would be arrested.

People dont do crime if they know they will be caught and severly punished. Fact!

[mockney piers]

Seriously if you approve of shooting people on sight or driving vans into crowds I suggest you move back there. If they won't have you I hear Syria's pretty nice at this time of year, I find a 155mm tank shell usually stops trouble sharpish.

[twofourseven]

My political views are this, I believe in the politics of common sense and respect. The kids that have gone round looting do not know the difference between right and wrong. They have been failed by their parents, who themselves been failed by the state. While they are a minority, others follow the herd mentality.

Yes, there has to be support services, but equally there need to be a line in the sand drawn whereby the police enforce the rule of right and wrong. If you cross that line on your head be it. Simple as that.

It is a fact that if any kids brings home stolen goods then the parents are accessory to the crime committed. So, where are the parents of these people.

Yes, there needs to be support services and community work and training for work. But equally need to be allowed to protect the community, without living in fear that they will be sued.

[Spaceman]

Don't worry Green Goose, there's plenty of people out there who agree with you.

Unfortunately though it's usually the liberals that kick up a fuss and get the

politicians to listen to them. Maybe one day they'll wake up and find a few

armed criminals standing over them in there bedroom and have a rethink

[edresi10]

They should all be like this

[StraferJack]

I've seen a lot of opinion around the police and their apparent restraint on Monday night

operationally I doff my cap to the men and women putting themselves out there. But I have heard a few senior officers and waaaay too many posts on public forums saying the police weren?t ?allowed? to tackle the thugs or that liberals complaining about excessive force in the past were to blame for their reluctance to steam in

I can?t speak for every liberal but I suspect I?m not too far away when I say that, confronted with what they were on Monday night, nobody would object to the police taking the right course of action. If ever there was a case of a need for a show of force this was it. ?Liberals? complain about excessive force when innocent people die walking down the street where no threat was apparent, but this was something completely different

I think it?s pretty disgusting for some people to imply ?well, we COULD sort this out, but hands are tied see? when nothing of the sort is true

[edresi10]

According to the times-

Police in London were ordered to "stand and observe" rather than intervene or confront rioters, officers have told The Times (?). Their caution was said to be the result of a number of pending legal battles, where the Metropolitan Police is being sued for its public order tactics.

[Green Goose]

mockney piers Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seriously if you approve of shooting people on

> sight or driving vans into crowds I suggest you

> move back there.

Mockney, why don't you read my post thoroughly without doing a knee jerk.

I said that these measures are taken when a curfew is declared and people are seen to be committing these acts.

Oh, and just to let you know what happens elsewhere, in another country, they take a convicted felon in to a football stadium, just before a match, and then they hoist them from the end of a JCB by a rope around the neck.

It sure does cut the crime rate!

GG

[Magpie]

There are complaints about police action when they take any force whatsoever - if the police had been more robust on Monday night, you can guarantee that the usual suspects would be publishing images of 15 year old kids with black eyes and accusing the police of brutality.

[mlteenie]

GG, one problem with that sort of punishment is the 'conviction'....

[StraferJack]

Magpie, I've just written a long post 4 inches above yours to refute that very suggestion

[cmck83]

Chick Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> How do you know they were little criminals?

> Innocent until proven guilty etc. Police want to

> do a lot more to them? Like what, give them a good

> kicking?

>

> How old were these little ciminals?

It's attitudes like this that led to kids in this country turning feral. It really annoys me.

[Magpie]

I know - my post is in response to yours, and I completely disagree - there would be large elements of the press, media, community groups etc who always take the default position of being against the police, and this would have been no different

[LadyDeliah]

So let's look at the time of heavy handed policing and phusicaal punishment by teachers. The 1980's riots came about because of this, not because of an absence of this.

The current harrssment by police in their stop and search policies of innocent, but profile-fitting, inner city youth has caused massive resentment.

How about we try seeing if when the police and other agents of the state treat people with respect, they get more respect in return? Novel idea, but who knows, it might just work!

[solrac]

In reference to the disturbance, I can assure you they were up to no good as myself and quite a few others stopped them from breaking into the small off license a few doors down from Budha Jazz, after getting missiles and signs thrown at us we managed to scare them off by basically standing our ground, even though at least one of the looters had a hammer.

It is that conjoined community spirit that will let these horrible elements of our society realize that they cannot do what they want and get away with it because they think we are all scared of them, they will understand that that sort of behaviour will not be tolerated.

And all you people moaning about the police, politicians etc, hows about taking a stand for your own community against this criminality and helping them, rather than questioning the routes they have to take to tackle this type of mindless crime, if we all stood up a little more rather than turn a blind eye or cross over and think, "oh well it's got nothing to do with me" maybe we can get our society back.

[BB100]

twofourseven Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It is a fact that if any kids brings home stolen

> goods then the parents are accessory to the crime

> committed. So, where are the parents of these

> people.

>

Believe it or not some parents are actually at work whilst their children are left to do as they please. My neighbour, who is a single parent, has two young teenagers she leaves at home when she goes to work and one of them causes trouble when she is not there and has been invloved with the police.

Councils have had to drastically cut the youth provision during school hols this year so there are not the activities available there have been in the past. This year there is no 'Summer Uni' in Lewisham for teenagers which was a really fabulous provision for two weeks of the summer hols. Additionally, LAs tend to cater for early and middle childhood but there is very little for teenagers to do. Where there are activities they can be very expensive - sometimes upto ?30 per day. This year my teenagers have very little to do because of the cuts so I sent them out of London to spend time with family but not many people can do that. If they play in the street people complain if a ball nudges their car. If they go to the shops adults stare at them suspiciously. If they go to the free swimming they get bullied by other boys. There used to be free organised ball games in the local park but this has been stopped by the cuts. The parks are not well supervised and my boys have been mugged by other boys even when I was walking a distance behind them. They refuse to go to the adventure playgrounds because it's full of younger children. The local library has closed....I could go on.

Children's services have been cut in a disgraceful way and unfortunately when young people feel society does not care about them they have little reason to care for society.