How to manage AWFUL toddler behaviour?

[juno]

My 2.5 yr old boy has always been 'spirited' and although he can be lovely he is becoming a real handful. I just wanted to canvas to see how others cope with challenging toddlers. I'm not good at being strict and I just don't know how to handle the general stomping and shouting. Today has been a bad day - he has thrown a full glass of water across the room, he has pushed and kicked his baby brother a number of times, and after a lovely morning swimming with daddy had total meltdown at lunch, refused to eat because there were 'bits' in his pasta (a meal he has previously enjoyed loads of times), and eventually we just put him to bed. My general coping methods are that I tend to remove either him from the situation (kind of informal naughty step) or remove something he is enjoying (turning off tv) but really he doesn't specially seem to care - he'll just sit and wait then come back and play, or he'll find something else to do. The only thing he cares about is his little comforter, but I feel uneasy about removing his special toy as a punishment! He is infinitely worse at weekends too, which is a bit tedious.

Agh. Please help!! I'm wondering whether I should try and spend more time with him on our own at weekends (he tends to go off for fun with daddy whilst I chill with the baby)...restrict tv time generally....be better at more organised/structured play so he doesn't have time to be foul...go back to work and let someone else sort him out (seriously tempting)....I need to do something as currently I'm feeling utterly miserable every day about dealing with 2 young children, one of whom is hell bent on destruction!!

Thanks in anticipation....

[Lochie]

I was going to start a similar thread but based around bedtime showdowns that can last for hours with our 25 month old. Truly exhausting and honestly at the moment I feel like my son is the boss and I am some wearisome slave mother who gives in when too tired of saying no a million times.

The only thing we do use that works during the day is we have a travel cot set up away from toys/ telly and if he I naughty he goes in there for 5 mins and he is not allowed out til he says 'sorry'. I am not sure how a naughty step works at so young an age as surely they just keep getting up? maybe at 2.5 they are old enough though to understand.

Will watch this thread with interest as expecting baby in feb and don't know how to cope with raging toddler and newborn. Sending u sympathies!

[BB100]

The terrible twos can be a really difficult age as they suddenly discover that the world doesn't really revolve around them and yet they also realise they can influence the world and so are constantly testing the boundaries and your patience. There are no foolproof answers but there are some things that can help. Firstly, it can be helpful to find out what triggers the tantrums. Spending sometime observing your child and keeping a note of what happens before and during the tantrum can help track triggers. Taking it in turns with your partner to see how each other handles the tantrum and feedback on what works and what doesn't can help (but be prepared to hear and accept some home truths).

Secondly, you must keep your cool. A low voice, even whispering, calm body language and direct eye contact. Bend down so you are at eye level. Hold their hand loosely. Saying something like "look at me please so I know you are listening...thank you...I'm not happy with (say what). I want you to (say what)". Try to find out exactly what their problem is (ie. what is the problem with the bits in the pasta? There maybe a valid reason) Then give 2 choices: one should be what you want them to do, the other should be the consequence. (i.e I want you to sit at the table and eat your pasta. Or I can take it away but you will be hungry. Which one?). If they can't decide then say 'hurry or I will choose for you'. Leave some silent gaps then you can count down from five to give him some time to decide. Then do exactly what you said you would do but calmly. Give praise for a good choice. If at any point there is screaming/crying you could say 'I know you are upset but I'm trying to help you to make it better'.

Other things that you can try are handing over to someone else if you are getting stressed, or using distraction techniques or changing the environment ie. putting your coat on and going for a quick walk, even if it's just the front garden to look for snails or doing something out of the ordinary such as getting the spices out of the kitchen drawer for a smell/taste. I have done a lot of research on behaviour management and these are all strategies professionals use in nurseries/schools but the important thing is to be consistent and try to avoid getting into the situations that cause him to kick off. HTH

[cg]

We have a "spirited" 2.5 year old boy too and have had some previous help from a child psychologist due to various problems with him some time ago!! She recommended the methods described by BB100 - a lot of it was around letting them know that you understand they are upset/angry and just talking to them. it does seem to work a bit with our little one - though not all the time - but then they are toddlers!! In relation to time out our psychologist said you shouldn't do it till they are 3 as they just won't understand it and that does seem the case in our house. Hope some of this helps - i also find that the talking to him route etc calms me down a lot!

[littleEDfamily]

Hi Juno,

How old is your baby and has your toddler's behaviour got worse since his/ her arrival?

[juno]

Thank you so much - I will think about some of the methods for calming/avoiding scenes. It's not so much that he has classic tantrums - it's almost like random acts of violence! Sometimes over excitement, or boredom, or tiredness - like it's an outlet for his emotions. And I know there is a lot of normal 2 yr old naughtiness - running away in sainsburys giggling etc - I know this is not unusual but it's just he doesn't seem to react to any kind of telling off - he simply doesn't care!

One thing that I find works quite well to avoid the 'i'm not coming, I don't want to go out' scenes is to repeatedly and calmly tell him what we're doing today...and warn him that we will be leaving soon etc as I find that if you spring a trip out he reacts.

All the above is a bit tricky when you have a wailing baby that's just been shoved over for the umpteenth time, but I know I am not the first to experience this!

[juno]

Little edf - baby is 8m - has sort of got worse but he's also got older so the behaviour is more sophisticated. I know the sibling rivalry probably doesn't help and some of the aggression is to do with me diverting my attention to his brother. BUt the chucking of a glass of water across the bedroom was nothing to do with the baby!! A lot of the time he kisses and cuddles the baby and loves him, and is upset when for example he comes down from his nap and finds the baby is still asleep etc. All normal...but tiresome and I kind of feel like he's becoming a bit out of control. He goes to nursery 2 mornings a week and they have never reported any problems. Maybe an extra morning...(please!!).

[Sanne Panne]

I don't think you necessarily need to be very tough at toddler age (definitely don't remove his comforter) but you do need to be consistent (if that's what you mean by strict). Maybe you are already! I notice that when I don't follow through I really end up paying for it longer term. Simple example - saw woman and child in the local shop, child wasn't behaving, womand said "ok that's it, you're really not getting that juice now", two minutes later woman and child leave shop, child drinking juice. I guess many of us have been there, I definitely have, but that's the thing that backfires the most. Even with very little ones. This is an obvious example but there are many more subtle situations that the child will unknowingly use to test you out and drive you absolutely nuts.

I know this isn't the solution to your problems but definitely one to keep in mind when you "observe" yourself.

[toast]

Going through this now with youngest son, I do keep reminding myself that it will pass. His big bro had horrific tantrums, quite aggressive at times and has turned out to be v gentle and level headed. One thing that has worked for us is a unified push on the positive every now and again. Catch them doing good and make a fuss, its so easy to get into a negative cycle, esp with young baby around. Good luck, it does pass.

[curlykaren]

might be time to drop naps during the day, less sleep and more outdoor time really helped my son?

[littleEDfamily]

It's really hard to tell from this sort of forum whether it is normal difficult toddler behaviour or something more. How easy it is thesedays to get a referral through a GP to a child psychologist?

If it is some comfort, our daughter, who was 3.5 at the time became much more difficult when her sister arrived. Not so much physical aggression, but definitely became 'angrier' and not towards the baby (mostly) but towards us, and much less emotionally stable. Once little sis became more 'person' and less baby (ie became overtly responsive to her; capable of 'playing' sometime around a year), her general behaviour improved vastly. Oh and more time at nursery. An 8 month old baby and toddler are hugely demanding. If you need to, I wouldn't feel bad at all about increasing his time at nursery to 3 or even 4 mornings a week - you sound like you need a bit of time out from him so you can get up the strength to try the techniques mentioned above...

[LBGBPR]

I would advice you to try first with you oldest with some outdoor time and then leave her at the nursery from

February as you plan, so lets hope from February you have a quality time with your baby. If you can see your GP or consuler for an advice in how to cope with many kids, hopfully your baby will be your last. I will say NOT to worry about your 8 months toddler he will be fine when the new baby arrives,all babies are different.

Remember if you have seen some kind of " angrier" behaviour in your kids is because they are your children and you are their mother so they love you. And if you are having difficulties with too many don't have more after your last one.Hope this doesn't sound too rude for some but as a mother of twins I try to be honest and realistic.

I give my love and loyalty to both because both are my children Oh God ! I sound old but as a mother is what I think and is our responsability to love them equal until they are full grown ups and see for themselves who were or are their real parents if they are able to realised that now then things could of be different but perhaps is too late. I can also say that should spend more time with them, to show them love, attention, and specially loyalty to them because our kids are not furniture they are little humans with feelings who love their parents very much and I would not play with their feelings. If you talked to them you will be oblige to do somtething and that is for both ways. If you don't want that to happen then Your GP will presume you are happy in how things are at the moment and you are doing just fine so if you prefer things how they are now I wouldn't worry for your 8m toddler he will be fine

for sure.

I have learned that being kind is more important than being right as parents. Good Luck!

[chantelle]

my son is over 3 now but since he was 2 any bad behaviour is addressed by getting down to his level, holding his arms firmly and looking into his eyes, saying in a sharp voice that x is not acceptable and he must sit on the step (or initially we would put him out of the room and shut the door) until he is ready to say sorry (with timing set at around 2-3 minutes). He is also given warning in advance that this is what will happen if he continues said behaviour.

Any physical violence is treated as a more serious situation - that is not tolerated in our house.

it has worked quite well - the only other tip I've picked up is to then leave them to think, because if they are still ranting and acting out they will continue to do so for longer if they have an audience.

I am also a shameless briber on lesser offences - e.g., "i don't like it" and playing with food at mealtime becomes "if you finish it all you can have" a treat or whatever.

Dreading what might happen when baby sister arrives in just a few weeks time though!

[AnnaCBH]

I would definitely encourage BB100's advice, the child development and psychology that I have studied for my profession, is along these lines. I would also endorse not using NO too much as it can end up as a rather negative cycle, rather than 'no, don't throw your food on the floor/water across the room' try 'food is for the table' 'water is for drinking' using positive statements that tells your child the behaviour you want/expect, it can take a while and you might feel a bit foolish at times, but I think long term gains for short term pain! Also remember that their memory is very short, and you might say the same thing a thousand times and feel like its not working, but then you'll get a breakthrough and it'll stick. As they are so little they still need to understand how they're feeling so developing emotional literacy is so important, getting down onto their level and labeling their feelings, I know that you are feeling really cross right now because you wanted to play with/watch X or Y but now its time for dinner/time to go out etc. will also help.

It can be so bloomin wearing at times so I totally sympathise, but you can do it! you will get through this phase. I also find red wine in the evening helps....

[bobbly]

Agree with both anna and b100. I found talking to my spirited child helped a lot and detailing what i wanted rather than what i didn;t want. have to say though that school really changed things it could be that more time at nursery might help. He needed more stimulation and outside play constantly, which of course is impossible when you are doing it alone mostly. The books raising an emotionally intelligent child helped a lot too.Other books have been recommended on the forum (if you ever find the time to read). best of luck, its a toughie

[BB100]

juno Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thank you so much - I will think about some of the

> methods for calming/avoiding scenes. It's not so

> much that he has classic tantrums - it's almost

> like random acts of violence! Sometimes over

> excitement, or boredom, or tiredness - like it's

> an outlet for his emotions. And I know there is a

> lot of normal 2 yr old naughtiness - running away

> in sainsburys giggling etc - I know this is not

> unusual but it's just he doesn't seem to react to

> any kind of telling off - he simply doesn't care!

>

> One thing that I find works quite well to avoid

> the 'i'm not coming, I don't want to go out'

> scenes is to repeatedly and calmly tell him what

> we're doing today...and warn him that we will be

> leaving soon etc as I find that if you spring a

> trip out he reacts.

It's sounds like you're doing all the right things and just need some reassurance that you are and that it will get better. The throwing water and the running off sounds very much like he doesn't understand the implications of some of his actions and also he doesn't know some of your expectations.

Telling him very firmly with direct eye contact 'you are not to throw water on the floor again, do you understand? I don't like it because...' and 'when you come downstairs from your nap I want you to do xyz and not disturb the baby' and 'when you are hungry you need to...and not...'.

This will help him to learn social rules and the emotional literacy Anna mentions and can break some unwanted habits.

[juno]

Thank you all again - had a better day yesterday. I'm trying to pick my battles, as it were. I think he really is just an ordinary, active cheeky 2 yr old who sees the potential of getting a reaction and attention out of his behaviour - so it's just managing it, especially when he is excited because daddy is home, etc.

Deep breaths. I'm reading a book that tells me all toddlers are cavemen. So why would we expect them to be good?!?

[bobbly]

I agree with you Juno about choosing your battles. I think there is something to be said for those that don't bow down to authority, its the rebels that may change things for the future, love my spirited child's ability to question and reason and wouldn't want to dampen his spirit, so long as he's not hurting anyone.

[nunheadmum]

Rather than a naughty step, our nursery use a 'sad face' - simply a very basic sad face drawn on paper or card - and if a child is naughty, they have to sit there. It is reinforced with the message that their behaviour is making mummy/teacher sad (and possibly other kids if pushing, shoving is involved). It's more portable than a step so can work better if you're caught with another little one elsewhere in the house. It worked great with our youngest since about 2.5 years, she HATES being put on it - even if you don't leave them, taking them there can help with the message.

[enjoy]

Hi,

our little boy was very challenging for a while. We tried it the other way round, in praising and encouraging him for everything good. We tried not to get into the battle situation.

But that means, that you are not saying easy things like, brush your teeth, any more.

Always be prepared to say, show me how good you can do, ..., well done, very, very well done. And so on.

Give him more challenging tasks to do, like help shopping, helping in the kitchen, just feeling like a big boy.

Maybe this could help him finding this new position within the family.

I hope I'll remind these tips when my son is driving me nuts again.

Good luck.

[littleEDfamily]

So true, enjoy....so true.... I forget the power of praise sometimes....

[Sanne Panne]

Praise is great but be careful to avoid excessive use of it for everyday things. It can work wonders when you do it for a while until the desired "task" becomes a habit again, e.g. tooth brushing. First of all, be prepared to get a big NO after 3 times, kids aren't stupid! Even two year olds can sense when you're patronising them. Secondly, if you keep praising for everyday things you risk either devaluation of praise or a blown up sense of self entitlement.

So let's say... all things in moderation ;)

[littleEDfamily]

Rest assured, Sanne Panne, I am not of the incessant 'good job' variety!!! I've noticed how well praise works now on my 4.5 year old as I fell into the habit of expecting her to do everything well all the time. When I do give her credit for the really wonderful things she does like looking after her sister or making her own bed, her face just lights up (in a way it didn't in the toddler years, when I think the greatest tool in the fight against bad behaviour has got to be distraction followed closely by ignoring!!)

[Moi23]

Ugh, if only I'd read this thread when mine was 2,5. I think I made every mistake in the book.... Still, he's a sweet boy now... School definitley helped!

[Sanne Panne]

Yeah littleEDfamily we're slowly growing out of the toddler/preschool years (with our eldest) but not quite there yet. Can't wait for that gentle sibling-caring 4.5 year old to emerge ;)