Halal and Kosher Meat, your thoughts

[Thomas Micklewright]

Bonjour

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15610142

Interesting news piece on how the Dutch Gov will soon be banning Halal/Kosher meat re. animal welfare.

Halal and Kosher, developed thousands of years ago, a way of killing an animal by hanging it upside down and slitting its throat. No stunning is involved.

Halal video: warning very graphic, 1 minute 50 seconds in:

What do people think about this method of killing and also how some schools and government organisations are using halal meat as standard?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1300589/Parents-fury-town-hall-plans-halal-menus-schools.html

http://www.harrowobserver.co.uk/west-london-news/local-harrow-news/2010/08/03/anger-over-halal-only-menus-in-schools-116451-26987078/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1313458/Halal-Britain-Famous-institutions-routinely-serve-public-ritually-slaughtered-meat.html

Thanks for your thoughts,

Tom

ps. Im expecting a little flak regards this, both for discussing a topic that could curb religious freedoms and also for using the daily mail. i believe all people should have the freedom to worship in whatever way they feel appropriate, as long as it does not cause harm to others (watch the video). the latter point, im lazy and the daily mail is the first link that came up, to 'beef up' the thread.

[Alan Medic]

Well, if you think animals are there to feed us, then I suppose hanging them upside down and slitting their throats is as good a way as any.

Is there any point in asking what you think Tom?

Haven't looked at the video. Wonder what people would think if the same was done to cats and dogs for example.

[Marmora Man]

Meat is meat - you're not going to persude me to stop eating it. I don't try to persuade you to eat it.

Live and let live - or in this case "Live and Let Die"

[Annette Curtain]

Oh lorks...

Here we go again

http://www.therubantiqueco.co.uk/12e038330.jpg

* takes a seat *

NETTE;-)

[LadyDeliah]

I looked at the video and it doesn't seem any more cruel than the ones I've seen where they try to stun the animal first with a metal hammer action stun gun. The cow died quickly as the blood loss was very fast.

[Otta]

Exactly, the animal would lose consciousness very fast and whilst it looks grim and messy, it's probably one of the better ways to kill an animal (not that the animal would be pleased).

With regards the Dutch, they do seem to do quite a bit to make Muslims feel unwelcome.

Tom, for a non meat eater, all you seem to ever talk about us eating meat. It's really boring.

[Annette Curtain]

Otta Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Tom, for a non meat eater, all you seem to ever

> talk about us eating meat. It's really boring.

Ironically

Thomas uses this strategy to further his cause.

NETTE:)

[RosieH]

Msn, I could really eat a good Salami di Napoli right now.

Don't suppose they do a halal or kosher version.

[Annette Curtain]

http://www.whatamieating.com/images/meats/salami-napoli-limoncello-01.jpg A feast for your eyes Rosie:))

[Thomas Micklewright]

Harp! Curtain, I thought it wouldn't take long until someone on edf compared me Hitler!

Actually I do post on many topics, but the ones I start are indeed usually linked to.animal welfare.

What's wrong with that, if you don't care about welfare/environment why click on the thread?

Tom

[Thomas Micklewright]

How does dulwich make Muslims feel unwelcome?

[Townleygreen]

Personally, I find halal and kosher both unacceptably cruel methods of killing animals.

I don't see why we need to pander to the needs of these particular religions.

The modern methods used - stunning, I believe - should be used by all.

[Parkdrive]

Townleygreen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally, I find halal and kosher both

> unacceptably cruel methods of killing animals.

>

> I don't see why we need to pander to the needs of

> these particular religions.

>

> The modern methods used - stunning, I believe -

> should be used by all.

So a bolt through the brain is ok?

[LadyDeliah]

Ok so is this less cruel then?

I'd say it was as bad if not worse.

[david_carnell]

Seriously.....Tom......sod off. This is getting tedious now.

[Annette Curtain]

david_carnell Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seriously.....Tom......sod off. This is getting

> tedious now.

No d_c

Thomas is a lightweight. If he can out do this lot then i'll go meat-free on Monday.

Bring on the beast.

NETTE:)

[KidKruger]

Yeah but the Jains don't bang on about it professing some higher knowledge than us.

[Annette Curtain]

Thomas Micklewright Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Harp! Curtain, I thought it wouldn't take long

> until someone on edf compared me Hitler!

>

> Actually I do post on many topics, but the ones I

> start are indeed usually linked to.animal

> welfare.

>

> What's wrong with that, if you don't care about

> welfare/environment why click on the thread?

>

> Tom

Scratch a Hippy, find a Fascist.

But really Thomas your pique defies belief, you yourself said the following.

I lightly rattle your cage and you flick out at me. However, I do indeed care about the animals I eat, in fact I look them in the eye for many months as I buy from a smallholder I work closely with in the Winter season.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/697/img4771r.jpg See these cattle ?

I'll definitely be eating one of them ( that's me in the foreground shadow ) in about 2 + years time.

I see how & where they live right up close. Trouble is Thomas, you can't see that people have a welfare conscience & a taste for such a beautifully kept beast.

Now go bang your gong else where.

NETTE(tu)

[Townleygreen]

Parkdrive said: So a bolt through the brain is ok?

Yes! Is my answer, because if they have been stunned they won't feel anything, and anyway it is an instantaneous death.

Unlike a kosher/halal one.

You prefer those?

[peterstorm1985]

I agree with TownleyGreen. A bolt through the brain is the way to go. A bit like snapping the head off a lettuce. If you twist it and allow each leaf to break separately; that's just plain cruel.

[Huguenot]

"Scratch a Hippy, find a Fascist."

Finally you're getting a grasp on Micklewright.

He has a personality disorder, characterised by "...a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood."

These salami tactics are part of an ongoing pattern of manipulation that shows a complete disregard of the free will of others.

Sociopaths are often vegetarian, it's a combination of control issues and an inability to relate to other human beings. They project their affections onto animals because it fuels their superiority, allows them to enact control fantasies, enables an unchallenged feudal hierarchy, and justifies their hatred of other people.

The self-help group down the Bluebrick is part of this. The attendees, the acolytes, are enablers of a narcissistic religion of self love that would if left unchecked escalate to Koreshi proportions.

He's never going to stop, and will never be satisfied because he's ill.

It's ony a tragedy because when he reads this he will not seen himself reflected in the prose. Instead he sees a crusader, a sword wielding Richard I. It's frightening.

[StraferJack]

or, he might just be a vegetarian, H

personally, in this instance I'm more inclined to agree with you (Hugenot) about "our Tom", but man, do you ever overstate your case sometimes.

(some of my best friends are vegetarians etc etc)

I'm not sure I agree that halal is inherently THAT much worse than many "modern" abbatoir practices, but given that many meat eaters couldn't give two hoots how an animan is kept when alive, to give out about how they are killed seems moot

I know many other strive to ensure animals aren't abused when alive and killed as humanely as possible as well - and that's as it should be IMO

But any modern abbatoir < halal/kosher arguments don't sit well with me

[Huguenot]

Just having a bit of fun SJ ;-)

[Otta]

but given that many meat eaters couldn't give two hoots how an animan is kept when alive, to give out about how they are killed seems moot

Mrs Otta (vegetarian) basically said the same. She thought it was silly for the Dutch to ban Halal / Kosher, when they allow things like battery chickens.

[Captain Scarlet]

I love my steak and chips,Roast dinner on a Sunday...but reading this post Im looking down at my pork chop

on my plate with a tear in my eye!:-$